Silly Sod

Been debpating this with the missus. Is it a term made up by white liberals for something as old as the hills? Or a word invented by some ex panther with too much time on his/her/their hands?

In any other cultural situation ebonics would be simply known as 'The Local Vernacular'. I have never heard the word used in a positive way with regards to black or 'african americans'. We have Wiki'd it but came up with a bunch of bollox.

My question is - is it racist to give the 'local' slang it's own pidgeon hole because it relates mainly to black americans? Should cockney rhyming slang be known as cauconics? Am I making any sense? I have been drinking red wine. The wife is talking about hats right now. Any thoughts?

BigDavyG

Apparently rushman is an expert in 'cockonics' - it has nowt to do with talking though.

Richardowen

Perhaps it has some credibility as slang for African American Vernacular English

http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...ular%20English

Cockney is based on English where as AAVE vocab has it's own roots, plus the changes to grammatical structure and tense tend to lend weight to it's descriptive existence.

Whether it's racist or not.....hmmmm...... this could be a long night !

As we're in the US I'm going to cite

American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition -

racism

"The belief that some races are inherently superior (physically, intellectually, or culturally) to others and therefore have a right to dominate them. In the United States, racism, particularly by whites against blacks, has created profound racial tension and conflict in virtually all aspects of American society. "

If we concede that the word refers to a legitimate catagorisation of dialect then we can propose that there is no inherent context, either positive or negative. What defines such things is the context placed on the word during usage but also over time the social environment that has attached implicit meaning..e.g "gay" !

I would suggest that the word is not in such common usage that it has, as yet, not taken onboard such an implied context. As a word, it's still not quite dressed for the party !

As you say you have never heard it used in a positive way ( I personally have never heard it used verbally ) I would suggest that you start using it so and encourage others to do so... Sh*t have I just promoted positive action for a word ....

fatbrit

Thought about this post last night while watching Bend It Like Beckham, and afraid I disagree. The film portrayed a standard integration of immigrants into the UK. The parents, first generation, had a marked accent and "foreign" choice of vocabulary whereas their children, educated in the UK, had "the local vernacular" of west London and were indistinguishable from the rest of the population in their speech.

Compare and contrast this with ebonics -- which is not the local vernacular of the area but rather is chosen by the user to depict membership of a specific racial group.

Is it possible to determine the racial group of a UK second generation immigrant by voice alone? Generally, I would say no. However, it is frequently possible to identify the racial group of a black American by their choice of using ebonic-type elements in their grammar, vocabulary and pronunciation.

gardnma

Ebonics really isn't anything new here.........

The black communities favour it because it sets tham apart from the whites. Its an identity thing, right?.......they want their own identity as they feel that they must reject the white pattern of speech, dress, behaviour, etc.
Its why we now have Kwanzaa too......

I do remember when the whole ebonics thing started gaining recognition on the West Coast in places like Oakland. There was a big confusion about it as being "artificial" or "created" and therefore was it really viable as a language? There was even a move to teach it in schools...... Question: Motivation...?

Its understandable; the resistance to integration. I mean, some Brits resist it every day by doing things like post on forums like this one.....

Trouble is, with the black/white divide in the US, any claim to racial identity, wether genuine or contrived is surely fraught with tension and argument.....

spuggy

I don't see what the big deal is about. The word ebonics is fairly new but the dialects/vernacular that african americans use with each other isn't. There are many other groups in the United States who have distinct vernacular and dialects and nobody gives a fiddle if they use it with each other, but if african americans want to officially recognize a pattern of speech unique to their culture it is somehow bad.

BigDavyG

First generation immigrants resisting integration (like me) versus 5th and 6th generation folks - bit of a difference in my opinion.

And anyway its not as if the whole ebonics thing stems from a group trying to get 'back to their roots' - its almost the creation of a whole new identity just to be different (which given the history of civil rights in this country is somewhat understandable up to a point - just not to the point of ebonics).

spuggy

You mean like the fifth generation of italian americans, irish americans, chinese americans etc. You walk in little italy in baltimore or parts of new jersey families who have been here for generations still speak italian, chinese, or use words unique to their irish heritage etc etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_American_English

this is a fun dialect map to check out.

http://www.geocities.com/yvain.geo/dialects.html

BigDavyG

But that's my point - where in Africa do they speak Ebonics ????

Like I said, its almost as if a decision has been made to 'create' a heritage just to be different, or because people just couldn't be arsed to actually fully research their genuine heritage.

anotherlimey

You mean Kwanzaa isn't a traditional African celebration???!!!!!

BigDavyG

I'll check with my man in Nairobi and get back with you

gruffbrown

I'll check with my man in Lagos, he reckons I've won the lottery.

BigDavyG

Ahh, your man in Lagos - always the bringer of such good news.
Last week he informed me that I'm a beneficiary in the will of the late Mr Winston Beauregard III.

Happy days

gardnma

It may well be, but the thing is, its only entered the season in recent years......

gardnma

Bingo.

Wether or not its authentic, which it isn't - its an amalgamation of "street slang" and talk...........the motivation is whats important.