Steve_I

I filled the US-individual form 2002 in 2017 and sent it off with form 8802 (and the fee). I put the names of two small pensions I was receiving on there and my tax code became NT (no tax). When I hit 65 last year I had another couple of small pensions to take, but I'm being taxed on them. It's not much, but I wrote to HMRC to try to straighten it out. They said I had to fill another form called "Double taxation relief from dt individual" to claim back the tax I'd paid and stop any future taxes. That form too has to go via the IRS for stamping.

Anyone else had pensions start at different times and had to do the same thing?
Thanks!
Steve (Retiring in two months)

lansbury

By small is the amount more or less than the UK personal allowance. If less you would get a refund at the end of the tax year, I did a few times. The problem with that is HMRC sends a UK check to your US address and no amount of asking could get them to refund by direct deposit to a UK bank. I posted the check to my UK bank.

While it is a pain to have to send the forms again, which is what I did, it saves the hassle of dealing with a refund every year. Between us my wife and I had 5 UK pensions to sort out at different times. Fortunately we only had to send the forms twice.

Steve_I

Thanks Lansbury, we're kind of in the same boat as I have four pensions from England and my wife has one plus a UK gov pension. Did you send the same form again (US-individual 2002) and the 8802 plus the fee? I'm waiting for another at the moment so will wait until I'm in receipt of both before submitting the forms. Altogether, they'll probably be more than the UK allowance and I'm going to get WEP'd to death on my social security here!

lansbury

I did 2 of my pensions (2002 & 8802) together and then one when I got it later. My wife did the forms for her works pension, then when she got the UK State pension it was less than the personal allowance so wasn't taxed.

If you wife has a UK government pension, ie an occupational pension, that would probably be classed as a government service pension. I have one of those. Under the tax treaty if she only holds UK citizenship it can only be taxed in the UK. If she lives in the US and is a US or dual citizen it is taxed in the US. Just in case that makes a difference.

MidAtlantic

When I encountered this issue I called HMRC and told them I was being incorrectly taxed and they adjusted the code on my new pension to "NT". I did not need to complete Form 8802 again.

Lion in Winter

Different tax years, tax treaty, etc.

So, I was resident in the US for the tax year ending Dec 31, 2022 from January to the end of April.

After that, I was resident in the UK and will remain so.

I earned as a consultant all year, so paying my own self-employment tax, etc.

I know I have to file in the US by April 15, 2023, and declare the entire year's income, irrespective of which country I earned it in.

When do I file in the UK? And in terms of not being double taxed, do I get a "rebate" on US taxes already filed? The tax years don't seem to line up very well, so at what point do I pay UK taxes first, and then file in the US but not pay tax in the US? At the moment, I seem to be stuck doing it the other way around (pay in the US first, get the rebate in the UK)?

Steve_I

Good info Lansbury. I'll just file the same forms and pay the fee again for the subsequent pensions. I probably didn't make it clear by saying UK Gov pension. My wife is a US citiizen (as I am now) but lived and worked in the UK for 13 years with the NHS. That's the UK pension she has alongside her UK state pension. There's just no end to the stuff that gets thrown at you!

Steve_I

Thanks M.A. I tried that in writing (took almost two months to get a reply)! They replied twice wth the same letter saying I had to file the forms again. They said they need separate forms for each pension.

SanDiegogirl

I have written before about the hassle regarding my UK State Pension and being taxed in the UK.
I started taking the pension in 2018, and then received tax bills for 2018, 2019, 2020. It took until late 2020, numerous phone calls, 3 submissions of form 8802 (together with 3 fees) and 3 deliveries of the necessary US residency certificate before the UK finally recognised my residency in the US.
From what has been written in this thread are you saying that when I take my private pension I am going to have to go through all this again ie. submitting form 8802 and getting another US residency certificate to send to HMRC?

Steve_I

I think so. I (wrongly) assumed they would realise my other two pensions weren't taxable in the UK, but they never did. I've been paying tax on one since August last year and I'm in the process of taking another one. HMRC asked me to fill a different form to the 2002 one, but it also has to go via the IRS, so I guess there'll be another 8802 and another fee.

SanDiegogirl

Holy, moly .... could they make it any more difficult for those living overseas.? answer no......

durham_lad

Well, they could take a leaf out the IRS’ book and have you report all your foreign financial balances, tax all your income regardless where you live, treat all pooled investments as PFICs and tax the heck out of them etc.

Russet

It sounds as though you are in a similar position to us. We have gone around in circles as to which way around to approach ours for our transition year. After much research and discussions with our USA CPA and newly appointed UK accountant - we have decided to file our US taxes as normal by April 15. AS you say, as US citizens, including all our WW income. We then plan to file our UK return after April 6 (as UK resident we will be including all our WW income from the date we became resident), The plan is to include a claim for tax credit on the UK return for US taxes paid. With the different tax years and one being a joint return and the other individual, trying to apportion the credits for this year is going to be a challenge. The UK accountant has promised assistance with this but how this will actually work out is yet to be seen. I have created month by month spreadsheets, splitting out all types of incomes and exchange rates. I would add no-one would provide a definitive answer on this but we need to file within timescales so have decided on this approach for this year. I am hoping things will be a lot simpler next year.

Lion in Winter

It's making my head hurt. I had forgotten that lovely little detail of having filed jointly in the US, but having to file separately here.

So you will file in the US before April 6, 2023 enabling you to file in the UK by April 6, 2023? I know the UK tax year ends April 5th, but you don't seem to be required to actually file for months after that.

durham_lad

You don’t have to file your HMRC tax return until January 31st 2024 but you can file anytime after April 6. We always file before the end of the year, in this case before December 31st, 2023 so that HMRC taxes paid line up more accurately with the US calendar year. That is to say when we file our IRS return next year for 2023 we will know how much HMRC tax we paid in 2023.