pickups85

when do you have to choose whether or not to have dual citizenship or renounce your british citizenship? or do you even have to choose?

anybody know?

discoviking

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Natura...ship_Resources

Look at the bottom.

pickups85

thanks bud

sir_eccles

In simple terms, taking the US oath does not renounce UK citizenship. To do that you would have to fill in a form, a British form.

You could of course just stay a UKC PR and never get dual citizenship but then you have to keep telling USCIS where you live.

Technically as I have been married 3 years I could go through naturalization but I haven't decided yet.

ian-mstm

You don't ever have to choose. You can be both a UK and US citizen... at the same time... and have two valid passports and everything! The US Oath of Allegience complels you to renounce your "allegience", not your "citizenship".

Ian

S Folinsky

My dear sanctimonious prick:

"Allegiance" is inherent in "citizenship." Take a look at section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration & Nationality Act which defines "national" as including (a) citizens and (b) "a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States."

The issue is that each country determines who their own citizens are. So, in the case of the US and the UK, the US naturalization procedure contains a requirement that a UK citizen must tell Liz to go to Hell. However, Liz feels that that is her prerogative on whether or not to release you from that allegiance.

ian-mstm

Interesting, although "permanent allegiance" doesn't mean "exclusive allegiance".

Ian

Yorkieabroad

This is what the US State department has to say about it. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1753.html

"A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship."

sir_eccles

Language Timothy!

You can "tell Liz to go to Hell" as much as you like, it is meaningless unless you fill out the correct forms.

Sally Redux

What about all the British citizen Daily Mail readers who hate the gone to the dogs/down the pan/third world country?

S Folinsky

Actually, this is a subject of academic debate -- some of which is interesting, but esoteric. What is the meaning of "nationality" or "citizenship?" It is often a bundle of rights and obligations. There is a presumption that one is entitled to the "protection" of the country of one's nationality.

Traditionally, this leads to a general rule that any person should have a nationality but only one. A stateless person is without protection, which is considered a bad thing. However, dual allegiance is also considered a bad thing because of possible conflicts.

I have read some academic articles challenging the assumption that one needs a nationality for "protection" given the development of international rights on human rights -- the Convention for Refugees and the Convention Against Torture impose a damn near universal obligation on countries to protect even their non-nationals. [Although the devil is in the details].

Fascinating topic -- beyond the scope of this forum -- but fascinating nonetheless.

discoviking

This was my dilemma for 23 years. King Harald of Norway is a bit more uptight (or relaxed, depending on your point of view) about this issue. Any Norwegian citizen who decide to tell him to go to Hell is automatically released from any allegiance to him, and is on their own as far as he is concerned.

I finally told Harald where to go and became a US citizen in 2008. It was a long mental process and not an easy decision, but I have no regrets.

S Folinsky

I will admit that I did not invent the phrase about HRM. Quite a few years back I happened to be a lecture which included an elderly English woman whom the US had tried for years to deport as a communist in the 50's.

I forget her name but she was quite feisty. She concluded with the comment "I finally told Liz to go to Hell and became a US citizen last year." I liked that turn of phrase.

British Consul

You can renounce your British nationality through a consular officer and get it back if you change your mind later (but you can only do it once). We, of course, charge a fee for both services.

Dean