JAJ

For many people - unless they have multiple passports - sending away a passport for months is absolutely not an option.

Nothing in the Home Office Nationality Instructions for this kind of application suggests that a passport should be required.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/po...ctions/nivol1/
See Chapters 6 and 7.

I would send a certified copy of passport as part of the application, explain why the original cannot be sent (need to travel) and possibly offer to bring the original to a British Consulate so that it can be sighted if necessary.

Once again - as this kind of registration is a statutory entitlement the chances of refusal are minimal and if it was refused for this reason, the courts would likely take a dim view of it.

By the way - they cannot "refuse to process it". A valid application must be either granted or refused but cannot be ignored or sent back.

britishtwilight

I have gotten much good advice here. You guys are great. I think I will begin the process. Will keep you posted ----
Susan
Britishtwilight ---- a name in honor of my British gr-grandfather's best race horse - Twilight.

MarylandNed

Oh I totally agree. That's why I said I would check to make sure it was absolutely necessary.

Sure - but who the hell wants to go to court? As I said, government agencies add their own rules/regulations/policies to manage their work - not everything they do is covered in minute detail by the law. So we have this requirement (quite possibly illegal but that's not known until it is tested in court) in the UKM application guide and on the web site that a passport should be submitted. Again it seems silly to me and I would check with them before submitting anything.

It might not be considered a valid application if they determine it to be incomplete under their rules/regulations/policy (e.g. because they want a passport and the original wasn't supplied). In this case, they can refuse to process the application. I'm not saying they are correct to do so but that's what can happen whether you agree with it or not.

JAJ

All government agencies have policies, but a policy cannot contradict legislation. If it does - that's illegal.

Similarly, there is often secondary legislation (Regulations) in place to support the provisions of an Act but again, Regulations cannot contradict an Act. That's also illegal.

Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 contains an entitlement to registration as a British citizen. Since registration it is not at the discretion of the Secretary of State, there is no scope for regulations or policy to impose additional requirements to those of the statute. Did you actually read what the Nationality Instructions say before making these comments?







If they did refuse to process it, an applicant could take them to court as that would be illegal.

Again - if one takes the time to read the Nationality Instructions, a lot of interesting information will be revealed. Such as (from Chapter 6):


6.3.1 What is an application?
6.3.1.1 We must treat as an application any request for [British citizenship] which, together with accompanying documents appears to contain the applicant's:

- Full name
- Address
- Date and place of birth (unless on enquiry this cannot be supplied)
- A declaration stating that the contents are true

6.3.1.2 It is not a statutory or regulatory requirement that the declaration is signed and dated, although Home Office forms provide space for this to be done. The declaration must, however, include either the full name or the signature of the person making the application. In most cases this will be the applicant but, as explained in 6.3.4 and 6.3.5 below, it may be a third party.

6.3.1.3 Applications made after 21 May 2007 must be accompanied by the appropriate fee and all applications must be made to the appropriate "receiving authority".

MarylandNed

Er..yes...I already said that.

Obviously you can take anyone to court. Whether or not it's illegal would be up to the court to decide.

Notice the term "supporting documents". They obviously have some leeway to decide what that means. Ignore passports for the time being. The law also doesn't say anything about supplying a birth cert or the mother's birth cert (which they also ask for). However it makes sense that they would ask for supporting documents to prove identity and the validity of personal information provided.

I agree with you. I think they've gone too far in asking for a passport. All I'm saying is that I would check with them before sending in an application. I wouldn't just ignore the instructions (in the UKM guide and on the web site) and then start initiating court proceedings if my application is refused.

JAJ

There's no-one to ask. If you call them, the people answering the phone will just read from the website.

It's a lot simpler to work from the instructions provided to case-workers.

MarylandNed

Phone: 0845 010 5200
Email: [email protected]

amoco

I am an American with British born parents who came to the states in 1961, the year I was born. I am applying for British citizenship through descent but while I have my mothers birth certificate, I have no expired passport of any kind from her which is one of the requirements listed. She said that when they came here, they took her passport. My mother does not travel outside of the US so has not kept a passport handy. Any ideas as to what I can do? If this is in the wrong thread, I apologize as this is my first post.

Thanks for any information.

Amoco

Bink

They can't expect you to have a passport from 50 years ago. I would think your parents birth certificates would be enough.

Slightly different scenario, but when I got my US passport for the first time, I was asked for my Mother's passport too that I left the US on (I was born in the US) and was unable to provide it as it no longer exists. They did ask for other proof of living outside the US though (doctors records, school records etc etc).

I would phone them up and state the scenario and see what they say.

amoco

Thanks for information Bink! I think I will have to call someone in the UK because the British embassy in the states says that they do not answer questions regarding passports! I will keep plugging away-it is like putting a puzzle together!

Best regards,

Amoco

amoco

Well this is interesting. I have written twice to the UK Border Agency with a specific question regarding my situation and both times I have received the standard auto response and no answers or ideas. I have also called the only number for them I could find, but no one was answering. Any other suggestions as to who I could call? Please see above post for what I am looking for.

Thank you,

Amoco

Speedwell

Amoco, it sounds like it might be time to consult (not necessarily hire, just consult) a qualified immigration lawyer with experience in UK immigration law.

Mummy in the foothills

Why? He's already a UKC by descent from the sounds of it.
He has his own birth certificate and his mothers birth certificate, the original passport no longer exists, If he sends as much information as he has they will let him know if they need more, maybe a photocopy of his photo page of the US passport. But hiring a lawyer seems a bit overkill.
When I didn't include a photocopy of my sons US passport picture page, for his first UK passport (after he'd been on my passport for years) they called me asn asked me to fax a copy of the picture page to them.

Speedwell

Because going through the normal channels hasn't got anywhere, of course. What else do you think lawyers are for? Nobody's suing anyone here; he just needs help navigating the bureaucratic arcana.

amoco

Thank you for your input. I think I will send what I have with a letter explaining why my mother does not have a passport and perhaps with that information, they will understand... it's worth a shot! I am not ready to consult with a lawyer, but if things really get bogged down, that would be an option. Other ideas are welcome!

Have a wonderful holiday everyone!
Amoco