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driving licence days for illegals is over?

driving licence days for illegals is over?

Old Feb 13th 2005, 2:34 am
  #1  
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Default driving licence days for illegals is over?

I was reading this today in the papers and just found a link on-line for it. First I knew the bill was past last night!!

WASHINGTON — The House yesterday voted to toughen border security and keep driver's licenses out of the hands of illegal immigrants, in the opening round of a tough, contentious battle to overhaul the U.S. immigration system.

The bill by Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., would require that only citizens or legal immigrants be eligible for driver's licenses and would set up national verification standards. Requirements for obtaining U.S. political asylum would be toughened, and the government would be forced to complete a fence along a portion of the Mexico border in California known as "Smugglers Gulch," without regard to environmental issues.

The bill particularly would affect Washington, Oregon and eight other states that don't require proof of legal status to obtain a driver's license, along with Tennessee, which issues driving certificates to people who cannot prove they are legal residents. All states would be required to enforce the federal verification standards, at an estimated cost of $650 million, said Cheye Calvo of the National Conference of State Legislatures.

click below for the rest ...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...9_immig11.html

What do you think ? scary for those who need to drive ?
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Old Feb 13th 2005, 3:46 am
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

Do not think so:

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...700551,00.html


and there are more stories on this line if you do a search.
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Old Feb 13th 2005, 5:36 am
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

Undisputed but watch this space. This is the first of many. I think there's a hidden agenda.
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Old Feb 13th 2005, 1:07 pm
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

Originally Posted by franc111s
Undisputed but watch this space. This is the first of many. I think there's a hidden agenda.

Hidden? Seems out in the open and very obvious to me.
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Old Feb 13th 2005, 4:20 pm
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

Originally Posted by Rete
Hidden? Seems out in the open and very obvious to me.
It is neither. It is, however, typical of current US politics in that there is a large issue no side will touch with a barge pole. They therefore go about issuing reams of unnecessary legislation to pander to their base supporters that will do absolutely nothing to solve the issue but will create even more bureaucracy costing even more money and inconvenience many law-abiding citizens.

If they want to solve the problem of illegal immigration, tinkering about at the edges with driving licence legislation is simply not going to do the job. And they know it. And we should call them to account on it and clearly demonstrate we have no faith in their ridiculous spin on it.
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Old Feb 13th 2005, 4:39 pm
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

I disagree. Immigration itself is a federal issue. Driver's licenses are and always have been State issues. From my armchair it would appear that the Feds are now willing to take a State right and make it a Federal one in regards to who can and cannot be issued driver's license. I see it that this action is needed because States are being namby pamby about doing the job themselves.

I don't see it as an inconvenience to law abiding citizens. US citizens and legal permanent residents will have not problems with obtaining and maintaining their driving licenses. It is the illegals and pending residents who will suffer the most. In regards to the legal pending residents, I do feel for them for USCIS is not efficiently issuing documentation attesting to their legal status for the long period between applying and issuance of residency.

For illegals, they will do as they have always done, get their documentation under the table and/or driver withour licenses and auto insurance. That fact will not change.

Originally Posted by fatbrit
It is neither. It is, however, typical of current US politics in that there is a large issue no side will touch with a barge pole. They therefore go about issuing reams of unnecessary legislation to pander to their base supporters that will do absolutely nothing to solve the issue but will create even more bureaucracy costing even more money and inconvenience many law-abiding citizens.

If they want to solve the problem of illegal immigration, tinkering about at the edges with driving licence legislation is simply not going to do the job. And they know it. And we should call them to account on it and clearly demonstrate we have no faith in their ridiculous spin on it.
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Old Feb 13th 2005, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

Intersting comment you make about illegals without Insurance. In Georgia now, the insurance companies and licence information is fully 100% linked - by law.

In fact you cannot get your new tag for your car unless the insurance company record shows the DMV that the car is insured, it's fully automatic. In addition to that, if the insurance for a car lapses, then the DMV write you (not the insurance company) a letter immediately warning you it is a crime to drive without insurance.

When the police run a tag check now, they can see immediately if the car is insured and pull it over. This makes is highly risky for illegals to drive without insurance as the chances of being caught are much higher.

As the systems become more and more integrated, I think driving without a licence will become more and more difficult. Especially now this bill has passed the first hurdle.

We shall see.

Last edited by franc111s; Feb 13th 2005 at 5:03 pm.
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Old Feb 13th 2005, 5:06 pm
  #8  
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

Originally Posted by Rete
I disagree...
Thank you for your reply. I can see that there are many issues arising here. The first would be federation v. confederation; I think I’ll pass on that one as I believe you guys tend to go to war over it!

The question that comes to mind is what the driving licence is for. Is it to show that you have reached a minimum standard to permit you to operate a vehicle and there is a suitable record to hold you responsible for your actions when so doing, or is it the national ID card? Practically it has certainly become the latter.

However, as you point out, it is a very ineffective tool for enforcing immigration policy. This I believe is the very reason the legislation is being unveiled at the federal level: to produce an ineffective tool to pander to the anti-immigration lobby. The tool must be ineffective since neither party wishes to change the status quo with regard to illegal immigration. It says: “look we’re doing something.� The hidden part is the fact it is never going to work since they planned it that way!
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Old Feb 13th 2005, 5:17 pm
  #9  
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

<snip> franc111s: Intersting comment you make about illegals without Insurance. In Georgia now, the insurance companies and licence information is fully 100% linked - by law.<snip>

They have a similar system in AZ, but it doesn’t work due to typical US bureaucratic inefficiencies.

You take out insurance at a broker, you go and get your licence with the certificate of insurance, you cancel the insurance at the broker and the insurance company refunds your money less one day’s cover, your insurer’s computer sends a notice to DMV, the information sits in bureaucratic lethargy at DMV for 6 to 12 months, the DMV sends you a letter revoking your licence, you take out insurance at a broker…

Fun, eh?
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Old Feb 13th 2005, 9:01 pm
  #10  
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

" driving licence days for illegals is over?"

Not yet, but looks like we're finally on the way!
 
Old Feb 13th 2005, 9:18 pm
  #11  
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

Originally Posted by Madeira
" driving licence days for illegals is over?"

Not yet, but looks like we're finally on the way!

And is this a good thing or a bad thing in your book? And why?
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Old Feb 14th 2005, 9:51 am
  #12  
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

Rete <[email protected]> wrote in news:34$283812$2059214$1108316383
@britishexpats.com:

    >
    >> It is neither. It is, however, typical of current US politics in that
    >> there is a large issue no side will touch with a barge pole. They
    >> therefore go about issuing reams of unnecessary legislation to pander
    >> to their base supporters that will do absolutely nothing to solve the
    >> issue but will create even more bureaucracy costing even more money
    >> and inconvenience many law-abiding citizens.
    >> If they want to solve the problem of illegal immigration, tinkering
    >> about at the edges with driving licence legislation is simply not
    >> going to do the job. And they know it. And we should call them to
    >> account on it and clearly demonstrate we have no faith in their
    >> ridiculous spin on it.
    >
    > I disagree. Immigration itself is a federal issue. Driver's licenses
    > are and always have been State issues. From my armchair it would appear
    > that the Feds are now willing to take a State right and make it a
    > Federal one in regards to who can and cannot be issued driver's license.
    > I see it that this action is needed because States are being namby pamby
    > about doing the job themselves.
    >
    > I don't see it as an inconvenience to law abiding citizens. US citizens
    > and legal permanent residents will have not problems with obtaining and
    > maintaining their driving licenses. It is the illegals and pending
    > residents who will suffer the most. In regards to the legal pending
    > residents, I do feel for them for USCIS is not efficiently issuing
    > documentation attesting to their legal status for the long period
    > between applying and issuance of residency.
    >
    > For illegals, they will do as they have always done, get their
    > documentation under the table and/or driver withour licenses and auto
    > insurance. That fact will not change.
    >

Pending residents. That is a real train wreck. To apply for adjustment and
get a green card, you have to send in your I-94, and then the DMV will
require your I-94, which you don't have. This happened to me, In MD. I told
the clerk I would drive anyway, whether they issued a licence or not, and
so they issued a licence.

If this becomes federal law, they won't have the discretion to break their
own rules like that, and so huge numbers of people will have to drive
illegally while they wait months for immigration to send them a substitute
I-94 to show to the DMV. In most parts of this country if you don't drive
you don't go to work.
 
Old Feb 14th 2005, 2:39 pm
  #13  
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

I think some of you are perhaps missing the point.

I think there will be little way out of these systems not shortly being linked, making it almost a national ID system. It's going to happen, I'm certain. The DMV systems are pretty sophisticated now as was shown by how easy it is to integrate with the Insurance companies databases in GA and other states. Electronic passports at entry, BIO data at entry are all going in together to make the tracking of all immigrants/overstayers/illegals efficient, if not infallable.

Once DMV and BCIS are linked like this, then things like issuing driving licences to pending immigration status will be fairly easy. It would not surprise me, if they give you anual/6 month licences and force you to go line-up at the DMV every xx months to renew. Heck, the tag on your car will be next, only being valid for the month/year your immigration status runs out. they get the revenue from the renewals so they might not care how many times you have to renew it.

In GA, they would not my son his provisional licence because of an expired I-551 stamp. I wasn't prepared to take him out of school just to renew the I-551 stamp until I needed to travel with him. I contacted the director of the GA DMV whom called immigration to confirm my sons status was good

and they issued him his driving licence. Fair enough.

I guess we'll all have to wait and see and there will be compromises on all counts. Bush won't be able to have any kind of "worker program" or whatever it gets recalled without these kind of concessions. What they give from Peter, they'll take from Paul and all that.
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Old Feb 14th 2005, 2:41 pm
  #14  
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

I varies by State, but the I94 would have been no use to me as I would not be able to apply until I had been resident for 3 months. Which is when my I94 expired.

Also if you had submitted the I94, then usually you only get the license for the remaining duration of the I94. (My license expires with my EAD)

Or do what sems others hve been doing, come to Colorado, pay your money and get any license you want, English or any driving skills not required!
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Old Feb 16th 2005, 2:43 am
  #15  
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Default Re: driving licence days for illegals is over?

franc111s <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote in news:34$283812$2061458
[email protected]:

    >
    >> Rete <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> news:34$283812$2059214$1108316383 @britishexpats.com:
    >> >
    >> >> It is neither. It is, however, typical of current US politics in
    >> >> that there is a large issue no side will touch with a barge pole.
    >> >> They therefore go about issuing reams of unnecessary legislation to
    >> >> pander to their base supporters that will do absolutely nothing to
    >> >> solve the issue but will create even more bureaucracy costing even
    >> >> more money and inconvenience many law-abiding citizens.
    >> >> If they want to solve the problem of illegal immigration, tinkering
    >> >> about at the edges with driving licence legislation is simply not
    >> >> going to do the job. And they know it. And we should call them to
    >> >> account on it and clearly demonstrate we have no faith in their
    >> >> ridiculous spin on it.
    >> >
    >> > I disagree. Immigration itself is a federal issue. Driver's
    >> > licenses are and always have been State issues. From my armchair it
    >> > would appear that the Feds are now willing to take a State right and
    >> > make it a Federal one in regards to who can and cannot be issued
    >> > driver's license. I see it that this action is needed because States
    >> > are being namby pamby about doing the job themselves.
    >> >
    >> > I don't see it as an inconvenience to law abiding citizens. US
    >> > citizens and legal permanent residents will have not problems with
    >> > obtaining and maintaining their driving licenses. It is the
    >> > illegals and pending residents who will suffer the most. In regards
    >> > to the legal pending residents, I do feel for them for USCIS is not
    >> > efficiently issuing documentation attesting to their legal status
    >> > for the long period between applying and issuance of residency.
    >> >
    >> > For illegals, they will do as they have always done, get their
    >> > documentation under the table and/or driver withour licenses and
    >> > auto insurance. That fact will not change.
    >> >
    >> Pending residents. That is a real train wreck. To apply for adjustment
    >> and get a green card, you have to send in your I-94, and then the DMV
    >> will require your I-94, which you don't have. This happened to me, In
    >> MD. I told the clerk I would drive anyway, whether they issued a
    >> licence or not, and so they issued a licence.
    >> If this becomes federal law, they won't have the discretion to break
    >> their own rules like that, and so huge numbers of people will have to
    >> drive illegally while they wait months for immigration to send them a
    >> substitute I-94 to show to the DMV. In most parts of this country if
    >> you don't drive you don't go to work.
    >
    > I think some of you are perhaps missing the point.
    >
    > I think there will be little way out of these systems not shortly being
    > linked, making it almost a national ID system. It's going to happen, I'm
    > certain. The DMV systems are pretty sophisticated now as was shown by
    > how easy it is to integrate with the Insurance companies databases in GA
    > and other states. Electronic passports at entry, BIO data at entry are
    > all going in together to make the tracking of all
    > immigrants/overstayers/illegals efficient, if not infallable.
    >
    > Once DMV and BCIS are linked like this, then things like issuing driving
    > licences to pending immigration status will be fairly easy. It would not
    > surprise me, if they give you anual/6 month licences and force you to go
    > line-up at the DMV every xx months to renew. Heck, the tag on your car
    > will be next, only being valid for the month/year your immigration
    > status runs out. they get the revenue from the renewals so they might
    > not care how many times you have to renew it.
    >
    > In GA, they would not my son his provisional licence because of an
    > expired I-551 stamp. I wasn't prepared to take him out of school just
    > to renew the I-551 stamp until I needed to travel with him. I contacted
    > the director of the GA DMV whom called immigration to confirm my sons
    > status was good
    >
    > and they issued him his driving licence. Fair enough.
    >
    > I guess we'll all have to wait and see and there will be compromises on
    > all counts. Bush won't be able to have any kind of "worker program" or
    > whatever it gets recalled without these kind of concessions. What they
    > give from Peter, they'll take from Paul and all that.
    >

I doubt if federal and state will ever work together as smoothly as that.
 

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