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Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:50 pm
  #1  
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Default Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

I just started to receive my UK pension in 2014 - the grand sum of about $2500/year! A question now that it's tax time here in the US: will HMG send any sort of tax document that I can include with my IRS return, or should I just list the amounts on my return without documentary backup?

Thanks!
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Old Jan 15th 2015, 7:25 pm
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Originally Posted by RogieWillum View Post
I just started to receive my UK pension in 2014 - the grand sum of about $2500/year! A question now that it's tax time here in the US: will HMG send any sort of tax document that I can include with my IRS return, or should I just list the amounts on my return without documentary backup?

Thanks!
No they won't send you anything. No documentary backup is needed.
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Old Jan 15th 2015, 7:52 pm
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Keep copies of anything relevant such as payment slips, for the relevant US tax year so that you can justify your figures if any question arises.
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Old Jan 15th 2015, 8:27 pm
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

As Robin says they literally don't send anything, just pay it into your bank account. Just show the yearly total on your tax return.

If need for an audit etc I have my online bank statements, but so far touch wood no questions have been asked.
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Old Jan 15th 2015, 9:28 pm
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Thanks!
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Old Jan 16th 2015, 12:52 pm
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

What type of UK pension is this? If it's a private pension or state pension then there should be no UK tax due if you are a US tax resident....if it's a UK Government pension there are different rules.

Did you provide HMRC with a US-Individual2002 to make sure there is no UK tax withheld at source?

You should just enter your UK pension on line 16.

If you don't have a 1099-R you can generate a substitute using Form 4852
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Old Jan 16th 2015, 4:49 pm
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

The pension provider will write to you in advance confirming what they plan on paying so you can keep that paperwork too as documentary evidence. You may wish to provide a W-9 to the payor for your own peace of mind.
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Old Jan 16th 2015, 5:18 pm
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Originally Posted by Cook_County View Post
The pension provider will write to you in advance confirming what they plan on paying so you can keep that paperwork too as documentary evidence. You may wish to provide a W-9 to the payor for your own peace of mind.
What would a UK pension company do with a W-9?...the US Individual2002 should be completed along with 8802 and sent to the IRS. They will send it to HMRC along with a certificate of residency (6616) and your UK tax code will be set to NT and your UK administrator won't withhold any tax.

When you get your UK pension you enter it on line 16 of the 1040, calculate the US taxable amount and file along with 4852 if you want to be super complete.

If's a UK Government pension and you are a not a US citizen, but are a US tax resident, then you don't need to do anything for US tax purposes, except maybe file an 8833 to claim the tax treaty exemption.....but you do have to pay UK tax on it.

Last edited by nun; Jan 16th 2015 at 5:22 pm.
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Old Jan 16th 2015, 5:53 pm
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

No, of course not expecting a W9 from the Brits. But I do like to document what I enter in my IRS return. No UK tax due, either. I've been resident in the US since '86, and haven't worked in the UK since '80. Just typical dual-citizen global career issues.

Thanks!
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Old Jan 16th 2015, 6:10 pm
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Originally Posted by RogieWillum View Post
No, of course not expecting a W9 from the Brits. But I do like to document what I enter in my IRS return. No UK tax due, either. I've been resident in the US since '86, and haven't worked in the UK since '80. Just typical dual-citizen global career issues.

Thanks!
I think the suggestion was that you submit a W-9.

Is the pension private, UK basic state pension or from the UK Government? The distinctions could matter
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Old Jan 17th 2015, 12:47 am
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Originally Posted by nun View Post
You should just enter your UK pension on line 16.

If you don't have a 1099-R you can generate a substitute using Form 4852
Form 4852 is for income received from U.S. sources where a W-2 or 1099-R should have been received but was not.

There is no need to generate a form 4852 for non-U.S. source income and it just complicates things if you try. For example, you cannot e-file a return if form 4852 is attached.

There has been an identified problem with one well-known tax software provider, at least in prior years, being unable to deal with non-U.S. pension income and forcing anyone trying to use line 16 on the 1040 to generate a form 4852. This may have been resolved this year, or alternatively, it would be recommended to try a competitor product.
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Old Jan 17th 2015, 1:10 am
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Form 4852 is for income received from U.S. sources where a W-2 or 1099-R should have been received but was not.

There is no need to generate a form 4852 for non-U.S. source income and it just complicates things if you try. For example, you cannot e-file a return if form 4852 is attached.

There has been an identified problem with one well-known tax software provider, at least in prior years, being unable to deal with non-U.S. pension income and forcing anyone trying to use line 16 on the 1040 to generate a form 4852. This may have been resolved this year, or alternatively, it would be recommended to try a competitor product.
Even better, one less form to file
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Old Jan 17th 2015, 3:15 am
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Form 4852 is for income received from U.S. sources where a W-2 or 1099-R should have been received but was not.

There is no need to generate a form 4852 for non-U.S. source income and it just complicates things if you try. For example, you cannot e-file a return if form 4852 is attached.

There has been an identified problem with one well-known tax software provider, at least in prior years, being unable to deal with non-U.S. pension income and forcing anyone trying to use line 16 on the 1040 to generate a form 4852. This may have been resolved this year, or alternatively, it would be recommended to try a competitor product.

I've been filing a form 4852 with a substitute 1099-R for the last 7 years to report my UK private pension using TurboTax and it has been allowing e-filing, I've never had to paper file.

Sounds as if I don't need a substitute 1099-R. Do you just enter it on line 16 with no explanation or documentation?
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Old Jan 17th 2015, 9:23 am
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Form 4852 is for income received from U.S. sources where a W-2 or 1099-R should have been received but was not.

There is no need to generate a form 4852 for non-U.S. source income.....
+1
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Old Jan 17th 2015, 11:13 am
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Default Re: Documentation of UK pension for IRS tax return

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Form 4852 is for income received from U.S. sources where a W-2 or 1099-R should have been received but was not.
Reading 4852 it never mentions that it is US source specific. I might be tempted to file one for UK private pensions and state pension just to document the amounts and source.
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