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-   -   DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/dna-test-executed-rapist-result-347992/)

anotherlimey Jan 13th 2006 1:33 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by franc11s
I have never seen such dribble. Are you really on the same planet here?

I would concur, DNA alone is not enough but if you have bothered to see this case, he was NOT convicted on DNA alone. This 2nd DNA test came as a result of pressure, after he had been executed and STILL proved his guilt. I'm guessing the 19,000,001st person didn't know her, wouldn't have had HIS hair on her and hadn't previously been convicted for attempted rape.

I think you would find, the odds shoot up to about 1 in 999 million but then you'd probably argue the case for Mr 999,000,001 too... too weird.

But you know what lawyers are like.... reasonable doubt is that 19,000,001st person! ;)

fatbrit Jan 13th 2006 1:37 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by franc11s
I have never seen such dribble. Are you really on the same planet here?

I would concur, DNA alone is not enough but if you have bothered to see this case, he was NOT convicted on DNA alone. This 2nd DNA test came as a result of pressure, after he had been executed and STILL proved his guilt. I'm guessing the 19,000,001st person didn't know her, wouldn't have had HIS hair on her and hadn't previously been convicted for attempted rape.

I think you would find, the odds shoot up to about 1 in 999 million but then you'd probably argue the case for Mr 999,000,001 too... too weird.


I'm on a planet that tells me that the death penalty in the US is arbitrarily carried out, has not proved to be a deterrent, is not cost effective, has executed innocent people, has executed juveniles, has executed the mentally ill, has racial bias, is in contravention of international covenants and conventions signed by the US, and --moreover-- it is a system that shows us the illness, prejudices and fears of its proponents, not the convicted.

You're on a planet that seems to revel in vengeance. And your post seems to suggest that DNA testing is the answer to overcoming these objections. It maybe a small aid for one of them, but it is not a panacea that moves the position you take forward much at all.

CarlM Jan 13th 2006 2:16 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by Lizzi
I think the theory is that as long as the majority killed are guilty the odd innocent one getting through is just plain unfortunate.

In this case they killed the right one.

I think they target a 60% correctly executed rate, then they are within acceptable limits. (Tough titties for the other 40%)

BigDavyG Jan 13th 2006 2:23 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by Leslie66
Well, FFS!! Her head was missing and she was brutalized. Would anybody in their right mind question why his sperm was in her vagina?


BIG CLUE FOR THOSE HARD OF THINKING:

He was not her boyfriend.

I'm not trying to defend the bloke, but the implication at the start of this thread that it was his sperm inside her, therefore he must have raped and decapitated her is complete garbage - and before anyone says anything, that is all that was mentioned at the start of the thread.

For those of you unaware with due legal process it is generally not deemed acceptable simply to say - "Mr X was at the scene of the crime at the time of the crime, therefore he is guilty". That is how the law works, whether you like it or not - they aren't my rules so don't blame me for repeating them.

CarlM Jan 13th 2006 2:28 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by BigDavyG
I'm not trying to defend the bloke, but the implication at the start of this thread that it was his sperm inside her, therefore he must have raped and decapitated her is complete garbage - and before anyone says anything, that is all that was mentioned at the start of the thread.

For those of you unaware with due legal process it is generally not deemed acceptable simply to say - "Mr X was at the scene of the crime at the time of the crime, therefore he is guilty". That is how the law works, whether you like it or not - they aren't my rules so don't blame me for repeating them.

A good point, although it does look a tad suspicious for him doesnt it??

BigDavyG Jan 13th 2006 2:32 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by CarlM
A good point, although it does look a tad suspicious for him doesnt it??

Absolutely

Patrick Jan 13th 2006 3:17 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by BigDavyG
I'm not trying to defend the bloke, but the implication at the start of this thread that it was his sperm inside her, therefore he must have raped and decapitated her is complete garbage - and before anyone says anything, that is all that was mentioned at the start of the thread.

For those of you unaware with due legal process it is generally not deemed acceptable simply to say - "Mr X was at the scene of the crime at the time of the crime, therefore he is guilty". That is how the law works, whether you like it or not - they aren't my rules so don't blame me for repeating them.

You still havent come up with the plenty of ways his sperm got there though!

I just read through the complete thread and for some unknown reason BigDavyG and franc11s are argueing there point with people who in essence have not disagreed with them. I think everyone accepts the presumption of innocence and that this guy was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt on the evidence presented at the trial and that the DNA test blows away his defence that he wasnt even there and had no sexual relations with the girl.

So answer me this, why the *** are you two still trying to sell what has already been sold! Now people are just taking the piss out of you both and cant even see it! Let it go, it will make the pain go away sooner

BigDavyG Jan 13th 2006 5:09 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by Patrick
You still havent come up with the plenty of ways his sperm got there though!

I just read through the complete thread and for some unknown reason BigDavyG and franc11s are argueing there point with people who in essence have not disagreed with them. I think everyone accepts the presumption of innocence and that this guy was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt on the evidence presented at the trial and that the DNA test blows away his defence that he wasnt even there and had no sexual relations with the girl.

So answer me this, why the *** are you two still trying to sell what has already been sold! Now people are just taking the piss out of you both and cant even see it! Let it go, it will make the pain go away sooner

Listen DICKWAD, where on this thread has anyone stated that the guy's defense was that he never had sexual relations with her. From what is stated on here I assumed that he was denying that he raped her and lopped her head off.
To my mind the DNA evidence does nothing to disprove this and if you have nothing better to do than post 475 ways how his semen could have gotten inside her then perhaps you are the one who people should be taking the p*ss out off.

OK, I"m done now :)

Patrick Jan 13th 2006 6:16 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by BigDavyG
Listen DICKWAD, where on this thread has anyone stated that the guy's defense was that he never had sexual relations with her. From what is stated on here I assumed that he was denying that he raped her and lopped her head off.
To my mind the DNA evidence does nothing to disprove this and if you have nothing better to do than post 475 ways how his semen could have gotten inside her then perhaps you are the one who people should be taking the p*ss out off.

OK, I"m done now :)

If never occured to you to read about the case before making your comments? And you still stand behind the sentence "there are plenty of ways the semen could have got into her"! My Lord, we won't be in the poll for most intellectual poster next year, will we!

You where done 2 pages ago!

Leslie Jan 13th 2006 6:54 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by BigDavyG
Listen DICKWAD, where on this thread has anyone stated that the guy's defense was that he never had sexual relations with her. From what is stated on here I assumed that he was denying that he raped her and lopped her head off.
To my mind the DNA evidence does nothing to disprove this and if you have nothing better to do than post 475 ways how his semen could have gotten inside her then perhaps you are the one who people should be taking the p*ss out off.

OK, I"m done now :)

Hey wait a minute....Aren't you the one that thinks if she's wearing a mini-skirt she's asking to be raped anyway?

Yeah, it's all coming back to me now. :rolleyes:

BigDavyG Jan 13th 2006 7:15 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by Leslie66
Hey wait a minute....Aren't you the one that thinks if she's wearing a mini-skirt she's asking to be raped anyway?

Yeah, it's all coming back to me now. :rolleyes:

Err, actually no.
I am the person who said that the reality of the world today is that its probably best for women not to wear certain clothing in certain situations, just like its probably not best for someone to walk through the "wrong" part of Glasgow in the "wrong" football jersey. I think in the end most people agreed with this point though you never seemed to and stated that I was excusing the behaviour of a rapist which I wasn't. Seems like you still don't get it. :rolleyes:
Just like in this situation I'm trying to relate the use of DNA evidence to the legal process but unfortunately Patrick seemed to be incapable of understanding this. In case you were unable to take in my points all I was trying to say is that the DNA tests in the case merely proved that the semen found inside the victim belonged to the man in question. Now, and I might be wrong here, as far as I am aware the presence of a man's semen in a woman's vagina is not enough evidence on its own to convict a man of rape and murder. Other facts were already presented to the court in this case which gained a successful conviction and no-one is arguing over these.

Still, I tried my best and sometimes you just have to accept that no matter how simply you put things certain people will still fail to understand.

Oh, Leslie full marks for trying to undermine my arguments by attempting make me look like some kind of lunatic who thinks that rape is an excusable crime. I have never said that (you can look back at the posts to verify it if you wish) but I admire your creativity and underhanded approach to debating.

CarlM Jan 13th 2006 7:18 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by BigDavyG
Err, actually no.
I am the person who said that the reality of the world today is that its probably best for women not to wear certain clothing in certain situations, just like its probably not best for someone to walk through the "wrong" part of Glasgow in the "wrong" football jersey. I think in the end most people agreed with this point though you never seemed to and stated that I was excusing the behaviour of a rapist which I wasn't. Seems like you still don't get it. :rolleyes:
Just like in this situation I'm trying to relate the use of DNA evidence to the legal process which Patrick seemed to be incapable of understanding.

Still, I tried my best and sometimes you just have to accept that no matter how simply you put things certain people will still fail to understand.

Oh, Leslie full marks for trying to undermine my arguments by attempting make me look like some kind of lunatic who thinks that rape is an excusable crime. I have never said that (you can look back at the posts to verify it if you wish) but I admire your creativity and underhanded approach to debating.

Davy, I happen to be with you on this one.. people can pretend it isnt so or actually say it, but everyone knows the truth. You take steps to protect yourself, and dressing accordingly is one way to protect yourself. I dont think that implies anything other than using sense!

BigDavyG Jan 13th 2006 7:22 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by CarlM
Davy, I happen to be with you on this one.. people can pretend it isnt so or actually say it, but everyone knows the truth. You take steps to protect yourself, and dressing accordingly is one way to protect yourself. I dont think that implies anything other than using sense!

Cheers Carl. I think that when this topic first appeared on the boards that most people came to the same conclusions.

I think that steal your idea if you don't mind and change my "Muppet" to "Leslie and Patrick Don't Understand Me"

Leslie Jan 13th 2006 7:40 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 

Originally Posted by BigDavyG
Err, actually no.
I am the person who said that the reality of the world today is that its probably best for women not to wear certain clothing in certain situations, just like its probably not best for someone to walk through the "wrong" part of Glasgow in the "wrong" football jersey. I think in the end most people agreed with this point though you never seemed to and stated that I was excusing the behaviour of a rapist which I wasn't. Seems like you still don't get it. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry but it just doesn't read that way to me.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=14

You quite clearly state here that the way the woman dressed caused HER rape. Maybe you're the one that doesn't get it.

Your tendency is to state what (you perceive) the other persons argument to be when in fact you are slanting things. It appears that you want to make it seem as if I don't acknowledge that the world is a dangerous place and women are vulnerable to certain types, when in fact I repeatedly acknowledged that fact.



Just like in this situation I'm trying to relate the use of DNA evidence to the legal process but unfortunately Patrick seemed to be incapable of understanding this. In case you were unable to take in my points all I was trying to say is that the DNA tests in the case merely proved that the semen found inside the victim belonged to the man in question. Now, and I might be wrong here, as far as I am aware the presence of a man's semen in a woman's vagina is not enough evidence on its own to convict a man of rape and murder. Other facts were already presented to the court in this case which gained a successful conviction and no-one is arguing over these.

Still, I tried my best and sometimes you just have to accept that no matter how simply you put things certain people will still fail to understand.
Perhaps it is because we were talking specifically about this case and not about generalities. (1)The man was not her boyfriend/lover (2) and denied having had sex with her....full stop. Consensual sex was never an option. Why did you bring it up?

Your remarks were out of place and inappropriate to the specific discussion. Hence the response you received. Quite frankly you're just being silly (and stating the bleeding obvious) about something that is out of synch with the subject matter.



Oh, Leslie full marks for trying to undermine my arguments by attempting make me look like some kind of lunatic who thinks that rape is an excusable crime. I have never said that (you can look back at the posts to verify it if you wish) but I admire your creativity and underhanded approach to debating.
Thank you. I do my best.

anotherlimey Jan 13th 2006 7:43 pm

Re: DNA test for executed rapist... the result is ?
 
My crystal hamster is telling me this thread will soon be moved or locked....


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