Disillusioned
Jul 18th 2010, 4:24 pm
#151
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2
Re: Disillusioned
Would you mind a reply to your original points from an American? Hope not. I joined just to talk to you. Haven't read every single post so if I am repeating stuff please forgive.
I grew up in the NE and have lived in the South for many years. I had culture shock galore. It was like moving to a foreign land. I also had trouble making friends and longed for the "real friends" of the NE.
I have also spent a lot of time in the UK and I really appreciate all the wonderful things about your country. I also find, along with many others of my generation, that America has changed and is changing into a place unrecognizable. The crappy entertainment industry feeding vacant minds from inferior schools and spoiled entitled children wallowing in their texts and apps---I could go on--but
There are other people here in the U.S., unfortunately it is getting harder to find them--- people who dress well, read, have global perspective, and value quality. But the obese, ignorant and self-obsessed are too often forefront. What is going to happen down the road I don't know but I am not optimistic.
Meanwhile we don't all eat junk, say "Ya know-like...." or wear t-shirts and torn jeans to work or while traveling. I want you to find that other side of us
From one who conquered the loneliness and sense of being an outsider in my own country here are my suggestions to find people who will share a cuppa...
Participate in group activities that meet regulaly and share a common interest--a garden club, a workout class (not just the gym but a specific class), take a fun class like watercolor or Italian, join a reading group through the library, volunteer at the school, the women's shelter, the library, the animal shelter--join an animal rescue group, find others in your area and get out there.
You will find people--and what is the big deal about the accent?? I got that as a Yankee in the South and I found it a good way to talk about myself and get to know the person who asked. It isn't really important and focusing on dumb stuff like that will make you cynical.
Get cracking and make it your goal to conquer this damn country. No running with tail between the legs. And, if you haven't done so--read up on the stages of culture shock.
By the way--just for perspective--I found the British polite but icy--see--it works both ways.
I grew up in the NE and have lived in the South for many years. I had culture shock galore. It was like moving to a foreign land. I also had trouble making friends and longed for the "real friends" of the NE.
I have also spent a lot of time in the UK and I really appreciate all the wonderful things about your country. I also find, along with many others of my generation, that America has changed and is changing into a place unrecognizable. The crappy entertainment industry feeding vacant minds from inferior schools and spoiled entitled children wallowing in their texts and apps---I could go on--but
There are other people here in the U.S., unfortunately it is getting harder to find them--- people who dress well, read, have global perspective, and value quality. But the obese, ignorant and self-obsessed are too often forefront. What is going to happen down the road I don't know but I am not optimistic.
Meanwhile we don't all eat junk, say "Ya know-like...." or wear t-shirts and torn jeans to work or while traveling. I want you to find that other side of us
From one who conquered the loneliness and sense of being an outsider in my own country here are my suggestions to find people who will share a cuppa...
Participate in group activities that meet regulaly and share a common interest--a garden club, a workout class (not just the gym but a specific class), take a fun class like watercolor or Italian, join a reading group through the library, volunteer at the school, the women's shelter, the library, the animal shelter--join an animal rescue group, find others in your area and get out there.
You will find people--and what is the big deal about the accent?? I got that as a Yankee in the South and I found it a good way to talk about myself and get to know the person who asked. It isn't really important and focusing on dumb stuff like that will make you cynical.
Get cracking and make it your goal to conquer this damn country. No running with tail between the legs. And, if you haven't done so--read up on the stages of culture shock.
By the way--just for perspective--I found the British polite but icy--see--it works both ways.
Jul 20th 2010, 5:38 am
#155
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1
Re: Disillusioned
"....I had to say "No." In the States, it's all about "the pursuit of happiness" and personal rights with no social obligation to others. The utter selfishness of the average American still absolutely shocks me. If it's what you subscribe to, fine, but, I think, it's alien to all but the most conservative Brit."
I joined this forum just to reply to this post (at this time...until I get over to the France part of the forum). I don't want to bring up stereotypes, but perhaps you're looking at America through your own, somewhat liberal, Jewish lens? You basically equate the conservative/average American argument against "Obamacare" with a perverse sort of American selfishness...but what do those people actually say? Since they obviously don't say "screw the poor...we're selfish" you must be judging the hearts of many people unjustly! For one, this issue is so multifaceted that what you said betrays a certain political subjectivity. I don't understand how someone can be so irresponsible to believe that the US should keeping printing money and keep driving the country into absolutely insane amounts of debt. Yes, healthcare needs reform, but completely changing the American healthcare system is probably not the answer. One of the real difficulties in the "average" American's mind isn't selfishness, but, in part, just empathizing with the poor...but why? Here in America ANYONE and I mean ANYONE can get a job. It may take a month of searching but it's impossible not to find a job. Also, ANYONE can go to college/trade school. It may take lots of loans (I have a ton), but anyone can do it. So what do you do with poor people that refuse to get a job? Or poor people that are addicted to drugs and can't keep a job? You can't just throw money at situations and hope for the best. Whatever we're putting money into, it actually needs to work. Here in Philadelphia certain people in particular communities complain about the people that want to keep them down by denying them free health care...and all the while they choose to live in a community that has no jobs, refuse to go to school (trade school or otherwise) and some just leach off the welfare system. I don't see how you can't have a problem with the government deciding where your money goes. I take issue with a secular, liberal, nation-state like the US deciding where my money goes. What if I want to actually check out the welfare system that my money is being poured into? Why should the government pay for something that should be community based and given out of the generosity of people's hearts? I truly believe in the saying "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." I (being a person of the Christian faith) believe that the church should take more of an active role in helping the poor onto their feet again or by helping the widows, fatherless...whatever. There are an insane number of churches in the US...why doesn't the government reach out to them and ask them to set up community programs? Why haven't the churches stepped up? If this administration starts to fund abortions with my tax dollars in this state I might seriously consider civil disobedience. Obama lied about this very issue and federal money is already going to states like Maryland to be used (indirectly) to fund abortions.I think it's also the duty of people that oppose the war/s to be able to opt out of paying taxes in support of them.Have you ever attempted to get welfare assistance of any kind? Have you ever sought after programs that help the poor? My wife and I are, by no stretch of the imagination, poor - and yet we get free health care. What did it take? Asking around. The only reason we use it (it's called Charity Care) is because we are in a huge amount of loan debt right now. We plan on making donations to this sort of charity when we have our careers (unless Obama taxes us so profusely that we have no choice where our "charity" goes.) Individual freedom is woven into the fabric of this country (and why is this country that way?...hmm). It's our vice and our virtue. It's just one of those quirks of history that people have to live with. In case you're wondering, I am definitely not conservative, or anything else for that matter.
"As for quality of life, that's a whole different post, but in one sentence and covering just one issue - no-one I know in the States gets to enjoy the quality time with friends and family, whether at home, in the local, or on holiday, that my family and friends back in the UK do"
It's because we're entirely selfish and really could care less about family ties....Seriously now - how many American families have you actually met? This is completely untrue for every family that I know. I'm sensing something else other than genuine concern. Maybe you're an English nationalist?
I joined this forum just to reply to this post (at this time...until I get over to the France part of the forum). I don't want to bring up stereotypes, but perhaps you're looking at America through your own, somewhat liberal, Jewish lens? You basically equate the conservative/average American argument against "Obamacare" with a perverse sort of American selfishness...but what do those people actually say? Since they obviously don't say "screw the poor...we're selfish" you must be judging the hearts of many people unjustly! For one, this issue is so multifaceted that what you said betrays a certain political subjectivity. I don't understand how someone can be so irresponsible to believe that the US should keeping printing money and keep driving the country into absolutely insane amounts of debt. Yes, healthcare needs reform, but completely changing the American healthcare system is probably not the answer. One of the real difficulties in the "average" American's mind isn't selfishness, but, in part, just empathizing with the poor...but why? Here in America ANYONE and I mean ANYONE can get a job. It may take a month of searching but it's impossible not to find a job. Also, ANYONE can go to college/trade school. It may take lots of loans (I have a ton), but anyone can do it. So what do you do with poor people that refuse to get a job? Or poor people that are addicted to drugs and can't keep a job? You can't just throw money at situations and hope for the best. Whatever we're putting money into, it actually needs to work. Here in Philadelphia certain people in particular communities complain about the people that want to keep them down by denying them free health care...and all the while they choose to live in a community that has no jobs, refuse to go to school (trade school or otherwise) and some just leach off the welfare system. I don't see how you can't have a problem with the government deciding where your money goes. I take issue with a secular, liberal, nation-state like the US deciding where my money goes. What if I want to actually check out the welfare system that my money is being poured into? Why should the government pay for something that should be community based and given out of the generosity of people's hearts? I truly believe in the saying "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." I (being a person of the Christian faith) believe that the church should take more of an active role in helping the poor onto their feet again or by helping the widows, fatherless...whatever. There are an insane number of churches in the US...why doesn't the government reach out to them and ask them to set up community programs? Why haven't the churches stepped up? If this administration starts to fund abortions with my tax dollars in this state I might seriously consider civil disobedience. Obama lied about this very issue and federal money is already going to states like Maryland to be used (indirectly) to fund abortions.I think it's also the duty of people that oppose the war/s to be able to opt out of paying taxes in support of them.Have you ever attempted to get welfare assistance of any kind? Have you ever sought after programs that help the poor? My wife and I are, by no stretch of the imagination, poor - and yet we get free health care. What did it take? Asking around. The only reason we use it (it's called Charity Care) is because we are in a huge amount of loan debt right now. We plan on making donations to this sort of charity when we have our careers (unless Obama taxes us so profusely that we have no choice where our "charity" goes.) Individual freedom is woven into the fabric of this country (and why is this country that way?...hmm). It's our vice and our virtue. It's just one of those quirks of history that people have to live with. In case you're wondering, I am definitely not conservative, or anything else for that matter.
"As for quality of life, that's a whole different post, but in one sentence and covering just one issue - no-one I know in the States gets to enjoy the quality time with friends and family, whether at home, in the local, or on holiday, that my family and friends back in the UK do"
It's because we're entirely selfish and really could care less about family ties....Seriously now - how many American families have you actually met? This is completely untrue for every family that I know. I'm sensing something else other than genuine concern. Maybe you're an English nationalist?
Last edited by congruent; Jul 20th 2010 at 5:47 am.
Jul 20th 2010, 7:32 am
#156
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Gaadnah MA
Posts: 597
Re: Disillusioned
I suppose the accent thing might get a bit irritating, but it's better than the myriad of countries where if they hear your English accent there is a better than average change they will tell you to **** off (although that can be fun too). The good news is that over time your accent changes. For instance my wife has just moved back home to MA and a lot of people she meets there think she is from England and give her the accent comment; though she still sounds like a yank to me.
Jul 20th 2010, 9:51 am
#157
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,005
Re: Disillusioned
I suppose the accent thing might get a bit irritating, but it's better than the myriad of countries where if they hear your English accent there is a better than average change they will tell you to **** off (although that can be fun too). The good news is that over time your accent changes. For instance my wife has just moved back home to MA and a lot of people she meets there think she is from England and give her the accent comment; though she still sounds like a yank to me.
Jul 20th 2010, 10:30 am
#158
Septic Sprout
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 7,993
Re: Disillusioned
"....I had to say "No." In the States, it's all about "the pursuit of happiness" and personal rights with no social obligation to others. The utter selfishness of the average American still absolutely shocks me. If it's what you subscribe to, fine, but, I think, it's alien to all but the most conservative Brit."
I joined this forum just to reply to this post (at this time...until I get over to the France part of the forum). I don't want to bring up stereotypes, but perhaps you're looking at America through your own, somewhat liberal, Jewish lens? You basically equate the conservative/average American argument against "Obamacare" with a perverse sort of American selfishness...but what do those people actually say? Since they obviously don't say "screw the poor...we're selfish" you must be judging the hearts of many people unjustly! For one, this issue is so multifaceted that what you said betrays a certain political subjectivity. I don't understand how someone can be so irresponsible to believe that the US should keeping printing money and keep driving the country into absolutely insane amounts of debt. Yes, healthcare needs reform, but completely changing the American healthcare system is probably not the answer. One of the real difficulties in the "average" American's mind isn't selfishness, but, in part, just empathizing with the poor...but why? Here in America ANYONE and I mean ANYONE can get a job. It may take a month of searching but it's impossible not to find a job. Also, ANYONE can go to college/trade school. It may take lots of loans (I have a ton), but anyone can do it. So what do you do with poor people that refuse to get a job? Or poor people that are addicted to drugs and can't keep a job? You can't just throw money at situations and hope for the best. Whatever we're putting money into, it actually needs to work. Here in Philadelphia certain people in particular communities complain about the people that want to keep them down by denying them free health care...and all the while they choose to live in a community that has no jobs, refuse to go to school (trade school or otherwise) and some just leach off the welfare system. I don't see how you can't have a problem with the government deciding where your money goes. I take issue with a secular, liberal, nation-state like the US deciding where my money goes. What if I want to actually check out the welfare system that my money is being poured into? Why should the government pay for something that should be community based and given out of the generosity of people's hearts? I truly believe in the saying "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." I (being a person of the Christian faith) believe that the church should take more of an active role in helping the poor onto their feet again or by helping the widows, fatherless...whatever. There are an insane number of churches in the US...why doesn't the government reach out to them and ask them to set up community programs? Why haven't the churches stepped up? If this administration starts to fund abortions with my tax dollars in this state I might seriously consider civil disobedience. Obama lied about this very issue and federal money is already going to states like Maryland to be used (indirectly) to fund abortions.I think it's also the duty of people that oppose the war/s to be able to opt out of paying taxes in support of them.Have you ever attempted to get welfare assistance of any kind? Have you ever sought after programs that help the poor? My wife and I are, by no stretch of the imagination, poor - and yet we get free health care. What did it take? Asking around. The only reason we use it (it's called Charity Care) is because we are in a huge amount of loan debt right now. We plan on making donations to this sort of charity when we have our careers (unless Obama taxes us so profusely that we have no choice where our "charity" goes.) Individual freedom is woven into the fabric of this country (and why is this country that way?...hmm). It's our vice and our virtue. It's just one of those quirks of history that people have to live with. In case you're wondering, I am definitely not conservative, or anything else for that matter.
"As for quality of life, that's a whole different post, but in one sentence and covering just one issue - no-one I know in the States gets to enjoy the quality time with friends and family, whether at home, in the local, or on holiday, that my family and friends back in the UK do"
It's because we're entirely selfish and really could care less about family ties....Seriously now - how many American families have you actually met? This is completely untrue for every family that I know. I'm sensing something else other than genuine concern. Maybe you're an English nationalist?
I joined this forum just to reply to this post (at this time...until I get over to the France part of the forum). I don't want to bring up stereotypes, but perhaps you're looking at America through your own, somewhat liberal, Jewish lens? You basically equate the conservative/average American argument against "Obamacare" with a perverse sort of American selfishness...but what do those people actually say? Since they obviously don't say "screw the poor...we're selfish" you must be judging the hearts of many people unjustly! For one, this issue is so multifaceted that what you said betrays a certain political subjectivity. I don't understand how someone can be so irresponsible to believe that the US should keeping printing money and keep driving the country into absolutely insane amounts of debt. Yes, healthcare needs reform, but completely changing the American healthcare system is probably not the answer. One of the real difficulties in the "average" American's mind isn't selfishness, but, in part, just empathizing with the poor...but why? Here in America ANYONE and I mean ANYONE can get a job. It may take a month of searching but it's impossible not to find a job. Also, ANYONE can go to college/trade school. It may take lots of loans (I have a ton), but anyone can do it. So what do you do with poor people that refuse to get a job? Or poor people that are addicted to drugs and can't keep a job? You can't just throw money at situations and hope for the best. Whatever we're putting money into, it actually needs to work. Here in Philadelphia certain people in particular communities complain about the people that want to keep them down by denying them free health care...and all the while they choose to live in a community that has no jobs, refuse to go to school (trade school or otherwise) and some just leach off the welfare system. I don't see how you can't have a problem with the government deciding where your money goes. I take issue with a secular, liberal, nation-state like the US deciding where my money goes. What if I want to actually check out the welfare system that my money is being poured into? Why should the government pay for something that should be community based and given out of the generosity of people's hearts? I truly believe in the saying "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." I (being a person of the Christian faith) believe that the church should take more of an active role in helping the poor onto their feet again or by helping the widows, fatherless...whatever. There are an insane number of churches in the US...why doesn't the government reach out to them and ask them to set up community programs? Why haven't the churches stepped up? If this administration starts to fund abortions with my tax dollars in this state I might seriously consider civil disobedience. Obama lied about this very issue and federal money is already going to states like Maryland to be used (indirectly) to fund abortions.I think it's also the duty of people that oppose the war/s to be able to opt out of paying taxes in support of them.Have you ever attempted to get welfare assistance of any kind? Have you ever sought after programs that help the poor? My wife and I are, by no stretch of the imagination, poor - and yet we get free health care. What did it take? Asking around. The only reason we use it (it's called Charity Care) is because we are in a huge amount of loan debt right now. We plan on making donations to this sort of charity when we have our careers (unless Obama taxes us so profusely that we have no choice where our "charity" goes.) Individual freedom is woven into the fabric of this country (and why is this country that way?...hmm). It's our vice and our virtue. It's just one of those quirks of history that people have to live with. In case you're wondering, I am definitely not conservative, or anything else for that matter.
"As for quality of life, that's a whole different post, but in one sentence and covering just one issue - no-one I know in the States gets to enjoy the quality time with friends and family, whether at home, in the local, or on holiday, that my family and friends back in the UK do"
It's because we're entirely selfish and really could care less about family ties....Seriously now - how many American families have you actually met? This is completely untrue for every family that I know. I'm sensing something else other than genuine concern. Maybe you're an English nationalist?
Couldn't care less... it's couldn't care less. Sheesh, people.
Jul 20th 2010, 2:07 pm
#159
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,367
Re: Disillusioned
"....I had to say "No." In the States, it's all about "the pursuit of happiness" and personal rights with no social obligation to others. The utter selfishness of the average American still absolutely shocks me. If it's what you subscribe to, fine, but, I think, it's alien to all but the most conservative Brit."
I joined this forum just to reply to this post (at this time...until I get over to the France part of the forum). I don't want to bring up stereotypes, but perhaps you're looking at America through your own, somewhat liberal, Jewish lens? You basically equate the conservative/average American argument against "Obamacare" with a perverse sort of American selfishness...but what do those people actually say? Since they obviously don't say "screw the poor...we're selfish" you must be judging the hearts of many people unjustly! For one, this issue is so multifaceted that what you said betrays a certain political subjectivity. I don't understand how someone can be so irresponsible to believe that the US should keeping printing money and keep driving the country into absolutely insane amounts of debt. Yes, healthcare needs reform, but completely changing the American healthcare system is probably not the answer. One of the real difficulties in the "average" American's mind isn't selfishness, but, in part, just empathizing with the poor...but why? Here in America ANYONE and I mean ANYONE can get a job. It may take a month of searching but it's impossible not to find a job. Also, ANYONE can go to college/trade school. It may take lots of loans (I have a ton), but anyone can do it. So what do you do with poor people that refuse to get a job? Or poor people that are addicted to drugs and can't keep a job? You can't just throw money at situations and hope for the best. Whatever we're putting money into, it actually needs to work. Here in Philadelphia certain people in particular communities complain about the people that want to keep them down by denying them free health care...and all the while they choose to live in a community that has no jobs, refuse to go to school (trade school or otherwise) and some just leach off the welfare system. I don't see how you can't have a problem with the government deciding where your money goes. I take issue with a secular, liberal, nation-state like the US deciding where my money goes. What if I want to actually check out the welfare system that my money is being poured into? Why should the government pay for something that should be community based and given out of the generosity of people's hearts? I truly believe in the saying "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." I (being a person of the Christian faith) believe that the church should take more of an active role in helping the poor onto their feet again or by helping the widows, fatherless...whatever. There are an insane number of churches in the US...why doesn't the government reach out to them and ask them to set up community programs? Why haven't the churches stepped up? If this administration starts to fund abortions with my tax dollars in this state I might seriously consider civil disobedience. Obama lied about this very issue and federal money is already going to states like Maryland to be used (indirectly) to fund abortions.I think it's also the duty of people that oppose the war/s to be able to opt out of paying taxes in support of them.Have you ever attempted to get welfare assistance of any kind? Have you ever sought after programs that help the poor? My wife and I are, by no stretch of the imagination, poor - and yet we get free health care. What did it take? Asking around. The only reason we use it (it's called Charity Care) is because we are in a huge amount of loan debt right now. We plan on making donations to this sort of charity when we have our careers (unless Obama taxes us so profusely that we have no choice where our "charity" goes.) Individual freedom is woven into the fabric of this country (and why is this country that way?...hmm). It's our vice and our virtue. It's just one of those quirks of history that people have to live with. In case you're wondering, I am definitely not conservative, or anything else for that matter.
"As for quality of life, that's a whole different post, but in one sentence and covering just one issue - no-one I know in the States gets to enjoy the quality time with friends and family, whether at home, in the local, or on holiday, that my family and friends back in the UK do"
It's because we're entirely selfish and really could care less about family ties....Seriously now - how many American families have you actually met? This is completely untrue for every family that I know. I'm sensing something else other than genuine concern. Maybe you're an English nationalist?
I joined this forum just to reply to this post (at this time...until I get over to the France part of the forum). I don't want to bring up stereotypes, but perhaps you're looking at America through your own, somewhat liberal, Jewish lens? You basically equate the conservative/average American argument against "Obamacare" with a perverse sort of American selfishness...but what do those people actually say? Since they obviously don't say "screw the poor...we're selfish" you must be judging the hearts of many people unjustly! For one, this issue is so multifaceted that what you said betrays a certain political subjectivity. I don't understand how someone can be so irresponsible to believe that the US should keeping printing money and keep driving the country into absolutely insane amounts of debt. Yes, healthcare needs reform, but completely changing the American healthcare system is probably not the answer. One of the real difficulties in the "average" American's mind isn't selfishness, but, in part, just empathizing with the poor...but why? Here in America ANYONE and I mean ANYONE can get a job. It may take a month of searching but it's impossible not to find a job. Also, ANYONE can go to college/trade school. It may take lots of loans (I have a ton), but anyone can do it. So what do you do with poor people that refuse to get a job? Or poor people that are addicted to drugs and can't keep a job? You can't just throw money at situations and hope for the best. Whatever we're putting money into, it actually needs to work. Here in Philadelphia certain people in particular communities complain about the people that want to keep them down by denying them free health care...and all the while they choose to live in a community that has no jobs, refuse to go to school (trade school or otherwise) and some just leach off the welfare system. I don't see how you can't have a problem with the government deciding where your money goes. I take issue with a secular, liberal, nation-state like the US deciding where my money goes. What if I want to actually check out the welfare system that my money is being poured into? Why should the government pay for something that should be community based and given out of the generosity of people's hearts? I truly believe in the saying "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." I (being a person of the Christian faith) believe that the church should take more of an active role in helping the poor onto their feet again or by helping the widows, fatherless...whatever. There are an insane number of churches in the US...why doesn't the government reach out to them and ask them to set up community programs? Why haven't the churches stepped up? If this administration starts to fund abortions with my tax dollars in this state I might seriously consider civil disobedience. Obama lied about this very issue and federal money is already going to states like Maryland to be used (indirectly) to fund abortions.I think it's also the duty of people that oppose the war/s to be able to opt out of paying taxes in support of them.Have you ever attempted to get welfare assistance of any kind? Have you ever sought after programs that help the poor? My wife and I are, by no stretch of the imagination, poor - and yet we get free health care. What did it take? Asking around. The only reason we use it (it's called Charity Care) is because we are in a huge amount of loan debt right now. We plan on making donations to this sort of charity when we have our careers (unless Obama taxes us so profusely that we have no choice where our "charity" goes.) Individual freedom is woven into the fabric of this country (and why is this country that way?...hmm). It's our vice and our virtue. It's just one of those quirks of history that people have to live with. In case you're wondering, I am definitely not conservative, or anything else for that matter.
"As for quality of life, that's a whole different post, but in one sentence and covering just one issue - no-one I know in the States gets to enjoy the quality time with friends and family, whether at home, in the local, or on holiday, that my family and friends back in the UK do"
It's because we're entirely selfish and really could care less about family ties....Seriously now - how many American families have you actually met? This is completely untrue for every family that I know. I'm sensing something else other than genuine concern. Maybe you're an English nationalist?
Jul 20th 2010, 2:27 pm
#163
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: North Charleston,SC. born in Stockport,UK.
Posts: 10,109
Jul 20th 2010, 2:33 pm
#165
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: North Charleston,SC. born in Stockport,UK.
Posts: 10,109
