Disillusioned
Jul 23rd 2010, 9:30 am
#181
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Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Birmingham, USA
Posts: 802
Re: Disillusioned
What on earth are you muttering about?
congruent
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1
I joined this forum just to reply to this post (at this time...until I get over to the France part of the forum). I don't want to bring up stereotypes, but perhaps you're looking at America through your own, somewhat liberal, Jewish lens? You basically equate the conservative/average American argument against "Obamacare" with a perverse sort of American selfishness...but what do those people actually say? Since they obviously don't say "screw the poor...we're selfish" you must be judging the hearts of many people unjustly! For one, this issue is so multifaceted that what you said betrays a certain political subjectivity. I don't understand how someone can be so irresponsible to believe that the US should keeping printing money and keep driving the country into absolutely insane amounts of debt. Yes, healthcare needs reform, but completely changing the American healthcare system is probably not the answer. One of the real difficulties in the "average" American's mind isn't selfishness, but, in part, just empathizing with the poor...but why? Here in America ANYONE and I mean ANYONE can get a job. It may take a month of searching but it's impossible not to find a job. Also, ANYONE can go to college/trade school. It may take lots of loans (I have a ton), but anyone can do it. So what do you do with poor people that refuse to get a job? Or poor people that are addicted to drugs and can't keep a job? You can't just throw money at situations and hope for the best. Whatever we're putting money into, it actually needs to work. Here in Philadelphia certain people in particular communities complain about the people that want to keep them down by denying them free health care...and all the while they choose to live in a community that has no jobs, refuse to go to school (trade school or otherwise) and some just leach off the welfare system. I don't see how you can't have a problem with the government deciding where your money goes. I take issue with a secular, liberal, nation-state like the US deciding where my money goes. What if I want to actually check out the welfare system that my money is being poured into? Why should the government pay for something that should be community based and given out of the generosity of people's hearts? I truly believe in the saying "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." I (being a person of the Christian faith) believe that the church should take more of an active role in helping the poor onto their feet again or by helping the widows, fatherless...whatever. There are an insane number of churches in the US...why doesn't the government reach out to them and ask them to set up community programs? Why haven't the churches stepped up? If this administration starts to fund abortions with my tax dollars in this state I might seriously consider civil disobedience. Obama lied about this very issue and federal money is already going to states like Maryland to be used (indirectly) to fund abortions.I think it's also the duty of people that oppose the war/s to be able to opt out of paying taxes in support of them.Have you ever attempted to get welfare assistance of any kind? Have you ever sought after programs that help the poor? My wife and I are, by no stretch of the imagination, poor - and yet we get free health care. What did it take? Asking around. The only reason we use it (it's called Charity Care) is because we are in a huge amount of loan debt right now. We plan on making donations to this sort of charity when we have our careers (unless Obama taxes us so profusely that we have no choice where our "charity" goes.) Individual freedom is woven into the fabric of this country (and why is this country that way?...hmm). It's our vice and our virtue. It's just one of those quirks of history that people have to live with. In case you're wondering, I am definitely not conservative, or anything else for that matter.
"As for quality of life, that's a whole different post, but in one sentence and covering just one issue - no-one I know in the States gets to enjoy the quality time with friends and family, whether at home, in the local, or on holiday, that my family and friends back in the UK do"
It's because we're entirely selfish and really could care less about family ties....Seriously now - how many American families have you actually met? This is completely untrue for every family that I know. I'm sensing something else other than genuine concern. Maybe you're an English nationalist?
New Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1
I joined this forum just to reply to this post (at this time...until I get over to the France part of the forum). I don't want to bring up stereotypes, but perhaps you're looking at America through your own, somewhat liberal, Jewish lens? You basically equate the conservative/average American argument against "Obamacare" with a perverse sort of American selfishness...but what do those people actually say? Since they obviously don't say "screw the poor...we're selfish" you must be judging the hearts of many people unjustly! For one, this issue is so multifaceted that what you said betrays a certain political subjectivity. I don't understand how someone can be so irresponsible to believe that the US should keeping printing money and keep driving the country into absolutely insane amounts of debt. Yes, healthcare needs reform, but completely changing the American healthcare system is probably not the answer. One of the real difficulties in the "average" American's mind isn't selfishness, but, in part, just empathizing with the poor...but why? Here in America ANYONE and I mean ANYONE can get a job. It may take a month of searching but it's impossible not to find a job. Also, ANYONE can go to college/trade school. It may take lots of loans (I have a ton), but anyone can do it. So what do you do with poor people that refuse to get a job? Or poor people that are addicted to drugs and can't keep a job? You can't just throw money at situations and hope for the best. Whatever we're putting money into, it actually needs to work. Here in Philadelphia certain people in particular communities complain about the people that want to keep them down by denying them free health care...and all the while they choose to live in a community that has no jobs, refuse to go to school (trade school or otherwise) and some just leach off the welfare system. I don't see how you can't have a problem with the government deciding where your money goes. I take issue with a secular, liberal, nation-state like the US deciding where my money goes. What if I want to actually check out the welfare system that my money is being poured into? Why should the government pay for something that should be community based and given out of the generosity of people's hearts? I truly believe in the saying "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." I (being a person of the Christian faith) believe that the church should take more of an active role in helping the poor onto their feet again or by helping the widows, fatherless...whatever. There are an insane number of churches in the US...why doesn't the government reach out to them and ask them to set up community programs? Why haven't the churches stepped up? If this administration starts to fund abortions with my tax dollars in this state I might seriously consider civil disobedience. Obama lied about this very issue and federal money is already going to states like Maryland to be used (indirectly) to fund abortions.I think it's also the duty of people that oppose the war/s to be able to opt out of paying taxes in support of them.Have you ever attempted to get welfare assistance of any kind? Have you ever sought after programs that help the poor? My wife and I are, by no stretch of the imagination, poor - and yet we get free health care. What did it take? Asking around. The only reason we use it (it's called Charity Care) is because we are in a huge amount of loan debt right now. We plan on making donations to this sort of charity when we have our careers (unless Obama taxes us so profusely that we have no choice where our "charity" goes.) Individual freedom is woven into the fabric of this country (and why is this country that way?...hmm). It's our vice and our virtue. It's just one of those quirks of history that people have to live with. In case you're wondering, I am definitely not conservative, or anything else for that matter.
"As for quality of life, that's a whole different post, but in one sentence and covering just one issue - no-one I know in the States gets to enjoy the quality time with friends and family, whether at home, in the local, or on holiday, that my family and friends back in the UK do"
It's because we're entirely selfish and really could care less about family ties....Seriously now - how many American families have you actually met? This is completely untrue for every family that I know. I'm sensing something else other than genuine concern. Maybe you're an English nationalist?
Last edited by jaytee; Jul 23rd 2010 at 9:37 am.
Jul 23rd 2010, 11:36 pm
#182
lush
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Maine - the "Deep South" of the Northeast
Posts: 5,004
Jul 24th 2010, 4:41 am
#183
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: From a beautiful part of Scotland, now in Colorado
Posts: 265
Re: Disillusioned
I just got back from a holiday in South Dakota. Myself, hubby and the inlaws were chatting to each other last night as we were getting coffee in the hotel. Our conversation was actually interrupted by an American wanting to know where we were from, and also how long we'd been 'in our country'.
I wouldn't have minded so much if we'd actually been talking to the woman beforehand, but we were having a private, if trivial conservation between ourselves at the time. I think at that point the inlaws realised why we get sick of the 'gee, I love your accent/where are you from/my great-great-great grandfather's budgie's sister's son was a lord from Scotland' conversation.
I wouldn't have minded so much if we'd actually been talking to the woman beforehand, but we were having a private, if trivial conservation between ourselves at the time. I think at that point the inlaws realised why we get sick of the 'gee, I love your accent/where are you from/my great-great-great grandfather's budgie's sister's son was a lord from Scotland' conversation.
Jul 24th 2010, 4:54 am
#184
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12
Re: Disillusioned
Hi folks, been a long time since I've been to these here parts! Some of the older farts might remember that I came here 7 years ago to work as a nurse. Well, I still am and I've been in Connecticut for 6 years now, after a year in Arizona. I know I'm one of the lucky ones as I have good job, earn more money than I've ever earned in my life, have a beautiful house that I could never afford the like of in England, and yet....I'm miserable.
Of late I have really been feeling the differences between the UK and the USA. This is not meant as a criticism of the American people, but really deep down, anyone who has been here for any length of time will tell you...its just different. Here in the NorthEast I find people so utterly fake. I have tried to make friends but I find that time after time I am let down so badly that I don't even want to try anymore. I've always been a very open and genuine person and it upsets me so much when I give of myself only to discover that people really never gave a shit about me to start with. I have tried to analyze what it is that lets this happen but when I compare to how things were back home it's so off the charts it doesn't compare. The only real friends I have are all in England. Those are the people whom I have known for many years and are like family to me. Every friend I ever made from the age of 15 I am still friends with, and yet I simply can't make friends here in the US. I find that Americans really don't get that involved, at least not to my experience.
I find that people completely misunderstand me. When I try to be funny they look blankly at me, when I try to be polite they think I'm rude etc etc. It's so frustrating! When I finally let my guard down and start to trust someone, guaranteed they &^%$ me right up the you know what! It's making me very sad.
At home, you can just sit down and have a cup of tea and a laugh with someone, but here I feel everything is so forced, and you have to watch what you say all the time because people take offense so easily. I never seem to fit in and I don't often understand the humour. I long to be able to relax and just have a good ol' natter like I did in England.
I get tired of the fakeness, the competitiveness, the endless comments about my accent and why do they always think I'm Australian??? I've been here 7 years and never met a single Australian. England is just across the ocean but it would never occur to anyone that I'm English!! If one more person says "oh gee, I just love your accent" I'm going to scream! I'm tired of the crap food, the horrible grocery stores, the crappy driving, the selfishness of everyone. My job is high stress and very competitive, and find that people rip you to shreds at the very first opportunity. I'm becoming a nervous wreck. For the first time in 7 years I really feel like going home. /rant.
Of late I have really been feeling the differences between the UK and the USA. This is not meant as a criticism of the American people, but really deep down, anyone who has been here for any length of time will tell you...its just different. Here in the NorthEast I find people so utterly fake. I have tried to make friends but I find that time after time I am let down so badly that I don't even want to try anymore. I've always been a very open and genuine person and it upsets me so much when I give of myself only to discover that people really never gave a shit about me to start with. I have tried to analyze what it is that lets this happen but when I compare to how things were back home it's so off the charts it doesn't compare. The only real friends I have are all in England. Those are the people whom I have known for many years and are like family to me. Every friend I ever made from the age of 15 I am still friends with, and yet I simply can't make friends here in the US. I find that Americans really don't get that involved, at least not to my experience.
I find that people completely misunderstand me. When I try to be funny they look blankly at me, when I try to be polite they think I'm rude etc etc. It's so frustrating! When I finally let my guard down and start to trust someone, guaranteed they &^%$ me right up the you know what! It's making me very sad.
At home, you can just sit down and have a cup of tea and a laugh with someone, but here I feel everything is so forced, and you have to watch what you say all the time because people take offense so easily. I never seem to fit in and I don't often understand the humour. I long to be able to relax and just have a good ol' natter like I did in England.
I get tired of the fakeness, the competitiveness, the endless comments about my accent and why do they always think I'm Australian??? I've been here 7 years and never met a single Australian. England is just across the ocean but it would never occur to anyone that I'm English!! If one more person says "oh gee, I just love your accent" I'm going to scream! I'm tired of the crap food, the horrible grocery stores, the crappy driving, the selfishness of everyone. My job is high stress and very competitive, and find that people rip you to shreds at the very first opportunity. I'm becoming a nervous wreck. For the first time in 7 years I really feel like going home. /rant.
Try living in the San Francisco Bay Area. I raised my daughter here, lived here thirty years. The weather is a little bit English without the humidity and winter cold. The coastline is gorgeous, and the culture is very recreation oriented - lots of nature, a little artsy in parts. It is soooo expensive to live here, people work hard and young managers struggle so hard to climb the corporate ladder you might spend all day at work without one single laugh. By the way my daughter is now studying in England, and the rest of my family is there.... in other words I am b@$%^y miserable!!! Making plans to rent out my flat and leave this paradise as a lovely place to visit. Give me London smog, too many people in London, Americanized car parks at Tesco and Sainsburys, any day. At least there is still an ale house or two and people who actually offer tea or something when you visit, as a show of hospitality... or at least politeness.
Jul 24th 2010, 11:36 pm
#185
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: By the beach, Florida
Posts: 6
Re: Disillusioned
I keep asking myself why a person who hates comments about her accent would move to another country?
I am asked every day, and every day I find something new to bewilder or amuse the asker. Though occasionaly "Im from England" is all I can muster.
But it never annoys me, and my accent helps me considerably.
I am asked every day, and every day I find something new to bewilder or amuse the asker. Though occasionaly "Im from England" is all I can muster.
But it never annoys me, and my accent helps me considerably.
Jul 25th 2010, 5:51 am
#186
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: From a beautiful part of Scotland, now in Colorado
Posts: 265
Re: Disillusioned
I keep asking myself why a person who hates comments about her accent would move to another country?
I am asked every day, and every day I find something new to bewilder or amuse the asker. Though occasionaly "Im from England" is all I can muster.
But it never annoys me, and my accent helps me considerably.
I am asked every day, and every day I find something new to bewilder or amuse the asker. Though occasionaly "Im from England" is all I can muster.
But it never annoys me, and my accent helps me considerably.
I didn't have a lot of choice in the matter. Hubby's job was moving out here - it was a case of move or be made redundant. For him to find a similar job in the UK we would have had to move to the south-east, something which neither of us wanted to do. TBH, if pressed on moving overseas, I would never have picked the USA.
Also, I never expected to be constantly asked about my accent. It's not something that ever occurred to me to do back in the UK, and there were plenty of non-UK folk in Edinburgh. I've never heard anyone else ask either back in the UK.
Jul 25th 2010, 8:15 am
#187
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Joined: Apr 2004
Location: CHELTENHAM, Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 1,494
Re: Disillusioned
If this is any kind of consolation to you, please be informed that the England you left behind may well not be the kind of England it is today, and if you were to return to England you may well find the changes and attitudes of many people are not so "merry and cosy" any longer. "Things" have changed in the UK, as people say - and it's true. Thirteen years of a Labour Government has done so much to bring many of these negative changes about, and before I get accused once again of being "anti English" I hasten to add that my comments apply to other parts of the UK, too, but it's just that the evidence of moral and spiritual decline and the lowering of standards appears to be more acute in England than in other regions of the UK, but that may be me just being slightly prejudicial.
Anyway, the England you once knew is not the same any more in many ways, so I'd stay put in America and summon up your English grit and smile through your current feelings of "misery" as you put it. A return to 2010 England could well make you feel even more down in the dumps, and the current political and economic climate in England look set to get just a wee bit more grotty. Apparently we are now ruled by something called a "Brokeback Coalition. That could well cheer you up no end.
Anyway, the England you once knew is not the same any more in many ways, so I'd stay put in America and summon up your English grit and smile through your current feelings of "misery" as you put it. A return to 2010 England could well make you feel even more down in the dumps, and the current political and economic climate in England look set to get just a wee bit more grotty. Apparently we are now ruled by something called a "Brokeback Coalition. That could well cheer you up no end.
Jul 25th 2010, 11:43 am
#188
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,006
Re: Disillusioned
If this is any kind of consolation to you, please be informed that the England you left behind may well not be the kind of England it is today, and if you were to return to England you may well find the changes and attitudes of many people are not so "merry and cosy" any longer. "Things" have changed in the UK, as people say - and it's true. Thirteen years of a Labour Government has done so much to bring many of these negative changes about, and before I get accused once again of being "anti English" I hasten to add that my comments apply to other parts of the UK, too, but it's just that the evidence of moral and spiritual decline and the lowering of standards appears to be more acute in England than in other regions of the UK, but that may be me just being slightly prejudicial.
Anyway, the England you once knew is not the same any more in many ways, so I'd stay put in America and summon up your English grit and smile through your current feelings of "misery" as you put it. A return to 2010 England could well make you feel even more down in the dumps, and the current political and economic climate in England look set to get just a wee bit more grotty. Apparently we are now ruled by something called a "Brokeback Coalition. That could well cheer you up no end.
Anyway, the England you once knew is not the same any more in many ways, so I'd stay put in America and summon up your English grit and smile through your current feelings of "misery" as you put it. A return to 2010 England could well make you feel even more down in the dumps, and the current political and economic climate in England look set to get just a wee bit more grotty. Apparently we are now ruled by something called a "Brokeback Coalition. That could well cheer you up no end.
Jul 25th 2010, 1:11 pm
#189
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Posts: 10,109
Jul 25th 2010, 2:28 pm
#191
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Joined: Apr 2004
Location: CHELTENHAM, Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 1,494
Re: Disillusioned
I refer you to this particular section of my post:
***Thirteen years of a Labour Government has done so much to bring many of these negative changes about, and before I get accused once again of being "anti English" I hasten to add that my comments apply to other parts of the UK***
Please re-read the last fourteen words. It goes without saying that it applies to Scotland as well, and unfortunately support for the Labour party is still much stronger here than it is in any other part of the UK as was clearly evidenced in the recent General Election, in spite of the last thirteen years of financial profligacy and sheer waste and the promotion of crazy and bizarre political correct policies which have resulted in the mess we see around us now in the UK, including social disorder and a host of negative social statistics, the worst in Europe in most cases, and a binge drinking culture which the rest of Europe looks on with disdain and disgust....take a trip to the Spanish Costas or the Greek islands, especially at this time of the year, and you will see what I mean....failing that just visit most UK town and city centres, especially at weekends, including here in Scotland! and you will see some of the reasons why I suggested to that British lady now feeling "miserable" in her particular part of the United States (Connecticut, I think - isn't that where weird Stepford was located in that weird film?) that in spite of her experience with (in her words) "fake" Americans who appear, from her wording, to be flaky and insincere - it would be best for her, perhaps, all said and done, to remain where she is in her lovely home in America, earning great dosh. I mean, would it really be worth giving up just so that she can sit down with a group of, hopefully, genuine English (sorry, British) people over a cuppa in a quaint English (sorry, british) tearoom and have a really good heart to heart convo?
Unlike here in Scotland I believe that the weather in the South of England is really gorgeous right now - blue skies and loads and loads of sunshine and hot enough to go commando.....that's just what many of those pissed up Brits do on those Costas I mentioned....unfortunately it doesn't go down well with the locals or the policia guys......or our own local constabulary back home here. Can be fun to watch though.
***Thirteen years of a Labour Government has done so much to bring many of these negative changes about, and before I get accused once again of being "anti English" I hasten to add that my comments apply to other parts of the UK***
Please re-read the last fourteen words. It goes without saying that it applies to Scotland as well, and unfortunately support for the Labour party is still much stronger here than it is in any other part of the UK as was clearly evidenced in the recent General Election, in spite of the last thirteen years of financial profligacy and sheer waste and the promotion of crazy and bizarre political correct policies which have resulted in the mess we see around us now in the UK, including social disorder and a host of negative social statistics, the worst in Europe in most cases, and a binge drinking culture which the rest of Europe looks on with disdain and disgust....take a trip to the Spanish Costas or the Greek islands, especially at this time of the year, and you will see what I mean....failing that just visit most UK town and city centres, especially at weekends, including here in Scotland! and you will see some of the reasons why I suggested to that British lady now feeling "miserable" in her particular part of the United States (Connecticut, I think - isn't that where weird Stepford was located in that weird film?) that in spite of her experience with (in her words) "fake" Americans who appear, from her wording, to be flaky and insincere - it would be best for her, perhaps, all said and done, to remain where she is in her lovely home in America, earning great dosh. I mean, would it really be worth giving up just so that she can sit down with a group of, hopefully, genuine English (sorry, British
) people over a cuppa in a quaint English (sorry, british) tearoom and have a really good heart to heart convo?Unlike here in Scotland I believe that the weather in the South of England is really gorgeous right now - blue skies and loads and loads of sunshine and hot enough to go commando.....that's just what many of those pissed up Brits do on those Costas I mentioned....unfortunately it doesn't go down well with the locals or the policia guys......or our own local constabulary back home here.
Can be fun to watch though.
Jul 25th 2010, 4:39 pm
#192
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,006
Re: Disillusioned
I refer you to this particular section of my post:
***Thirteen years of a Labour Government has done so much to bring many of these negative changes about, and before I get accused once again of being "anti English" I hasten to add that my comments apply to other parts of the UK***
Please re-read the last fourteen words. It goes without saying that it applies to Scotland as well, and unfortunately support for the Labour party is still much stronger here than it is in any other part of the UK as was clearly evidenced in the recent General Election, in spite of the last thirteen years of financial profligacy and sheer waste and the promotion of crazy and bizarre political correct policies which have resulted in the mess we see around us now in the UK, including social disorder and a host of negative social statistics, the worst in Europe in most cases, and a binge drinking culture which the rest of Europe looks on with disdain and disgust....take a trip to the Spanish Costas or the Greek islands, especially at this time of the year, and you will see what I mean....failing that just visit most UK town and city centres, especially at weekends, including here in Scotland! and you will see some of the reasons why I suggested to that British lady now feeling "miserable" in her particular part of the United States (Connecticut, I think - isn't that where weird Stepford was located in that weird film?) that in spite of her experience with (in her words) "fake" Americans who appear, from her wording, to be flaky and insincere - it would be best for her, perhaps, all said and done, to remain where she is in her lovely home in America, earning great dosh. I mean, would it really be worth giving up just so that she can sit down with a group of, hopefully, genuine English (sorry, British) people over a cuppa in a quaint English (sorry, british) tearoom and have a really good heart to heart convo?
Unlike here in Scotland I believe that the weather in the South of England is really gorgeous right now - blue skies and loads and loads of sunshine and hot enough to go commando.....that's just what many of those pissed up Brits do on those Costas I mentioned....unfortunately it doesn't go down well with the locals or the policia guys......or our own local constabulary back home here. Can be fun to watch though.
***Thirteen years of a Labour Government has done so much to bring many of these negative changes about, and before I get accused once again of being "anti English" I hasten to add that my comments apply to other parts of the UK***
Please re-read the last fourteen words. It goes without saying that it applies to Scotland as well, and unfortunately support for the Labour party is still much stronger here than it is in any other part of the UK as was clearly evidenced in the recent General Election, in spite of the last thirteen years of financial profligacy and sheer waste and the promotion of crazy and bizarre political correct policies which have resulted in the mess we see around us now in the UK, including social disorder and a host of negative social statistics, the worst in Europe in most cases, and a binge drinking culture which the rest of Europe looks on with disdain and disgust....take a trip to the Spanish Costas or the Greek islands, especially at this time of the year, and you will see what I mean....failing that just visit most UK town and city centres, especially at weekends, including here in Scotland! and you will see some of the reasons why I suggested to that British lady now feeling "miserable" in her particular part of the United States (Connecticut, I think - isn't that where weird Stepford was located in that weird film?) that in spite of her experience with (in her words) "fake" Americans who appear, from her wording, to be flaky and insincere - it would be best for her, perhaps, all said and done, to remain where she is in her lovely home in America, earning great dosh. I mean, would it really be worth giving up just so that she can sit down with a group of, hopefully, genuine English (sorry, British
) people over a cuppa in a quaint English (sorry, british) tearoom and have a really good heart to heart convo?Unlike here in Scotland I believe that the weather in the South of England is really gorgeous right now - blue skies and loads and loads of sunshine and hot enough to go commando.....that's just what many of those pissed up Brits do on those Costas I mentioned....unfortunately it doesn't go down well with the locals or the policia guys......or our own local constabulary back home here.
Can be fun to watch though., coming from someone who lives in Scotland ()
Jul 25th 2010, 4:50 pm
#193
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Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,043
Re: Disillusioned
Jul 25th 2010, 4:52 pm
#194
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Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,043
Re: Disillusioned
Is very odd to see a Scot blaming binge drinking on the Labour government.
All the Scots I know have been binge drinking for most of their lives no matter who's in power
All the Scots I know have been binge drinking for most of their lives no matter who's in power
