Difficult to make friends in America?
#61
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Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
Essentially it is a fundraising group
If I want to contribute to my local society, school, library, roads, etc, etc, I primarily do that via taxation so that everyone pays a fair amount. As passed by Prop 30 this last month, Californians finally realise that - relying on private fund-raising and philanthropy just doesn't work. We've known that in Europe for years. Cameron tried his "big society" ideas and it fell flat-on-it's-a**e. You can't trust Big Corporations to fund public works - they don't even pay their fair-share in in-country tax and dodge their social responsibilities at every turn. That is why Amazon, Starbucks and Apple were called-to-account this last week - I'm sure there are more of them out-there and it is time to call them in.
I'm not denigrating what you and your group do, but I just want to make friends on neutral terms - not related to money, good-deeds, competitions, etc, etc. Cuppa-tea/Kir-and-nibbles type friends.
It's impossible here.
#62
Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
Oh my, yes. The continental USA is very large, geographically, at ~3,120,000 square miles, predominantly populated by peoples from around the world who tended to arrive at distinct periods in time and settle in homogeneous groups in different parts of the country. Despite the movement of people between states and regions over the decades, how could there not be significant differences between states and regions? The US east and west coasts, New York and California specifically, are often referred to as two separate countries because of the striking differences.
You mention noticing a difference between two nearby states in New England, a fairly small region of the USA at only ~72,000 square miles. Great Britain has an area of ~89,000 square miles, not much bigger (although the population is more than four times as large). Are there not noticeable differences between, say, Scotland and England?
Regards, JEff
You mention noticing a difference between two nearby states in New England, a fairly small region of the USA at only ~72,000 square miles. Great Britain has an area of ~89,000 square miles, not much bigger (although the population is more than four times as large). Are there not noticeable differences between, say, Scotland and England?
Regards, JEff
#63
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Posts: 860
Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
On the outside, yes. Once you try to break in - no-way. They are just as cliquey, obsessed with money and work as every one else....
There are the odd (and I mean ODD) beach-bums out there that are just at one with nature, man, but if you lift-the-lid on Silicon Valley, you will see staff that are living the American Dream - that is keeping themselves within their narrow cultural zone and working 24/7 because they are just sh*t scared of being sent back form whence they came/not being able to afford the rent or mortgage/loosing health "benefits" (that should be rights).
Nicest bloke I ever knew was a Baronet. I didn't even know he was one until I read his obit !!!! Salt-of-the-earth type, slightly left of me politically....
And YES I've been trying to work this one out since we've been here. The US is far more class and status-divided that the UK (which itself is more class and status divided than most of Europe, although even places like France have a social pecking order once you scratch the surface).
What I really, really, really don't like about the status system here is that it is based on money. Everything is related to the nasty stuff - from schooling to healthcare. People rudely and arrogantly talk about money without considering whether they may be upsetting someone else's feelings. I have taken to asking people not to talk about money as I find it distasteful. The looks I get....
Connected with that is the way that people wear their badges of education as if it infers some "right" for them to be superior to you because they can afford it. Public education, especially in the Valley, is sneered at by some even though we have found the teachers and the education level to be just-as-good if not better than the UK. I have sat in business meetings with people that would be called total idiots in the UK to their face but they proudly state their qualifications as they introduce themselves expecting to be revered as demigods. And they are....
Everything about you - your car, your education, your Visa, your house/apartment/letting/owning status, your mobile phone - is used to judge and place you in a relative position with your "peers." Totally superficial and childish.
But my biggest issue is the arrogance and self-righteousness that seems ingrained in US culture - the belief that they are RIGHT and everyone else is WRONG. I have no problem with people being proud of their country, or of feeling allegiance to their fellow human beings (that is basic socialism...) and the Americans do that in spades. But what I do have an issue with is the inability to question accepted norms and practises in the way that I think Europeans do without it being seen as some form of high-treason. Not that people don't complain here - I hear them moan in private about the roads, the healthcare, the schools, etc, etc. But in public ? Never - the US is king.
I hate the way that religion is used as a manner of asserting their righteousness as well - Europe is secular now for a good reason, and most people are happy that individuals can carry-on their own beliefs in private. Here, it is in-your-face to the point where even in liberal, wacky-backy California, there is a college in the middle of Silicon Valley with 10,000 students enrolled that teaches "creationism" as part of it's Science class. Outrageous. (BTW, I know the Principal - well, we lived next door to him until I told him I was an atheist at which point he looked like he had just stepped in something nasty....)
I put a lot of this down to insecurity of youth (of country), the relatively recent internecine history in the US and a hard-line right-wing under-belly that believe they should be allowed to do what they want and f the rest of them. Unfortunately, being white, middle-aged, male it is automatically assumed that I fit that group whereas I would quite gladly float them all off to an island in the Pacific....
So, to the original point "Difficult to make friends in America?" - virtually impossible. Because once you understand what a judgmental society this is, you are always thinking "what is it you REALLY want from this relationship ?"
There are the odd (and I mean ODD) beach-bums out there that are just at one with nature, man, but if you lift-the-lid on Silicon Valley, you will see staff that are living the American Dream - that is keeping themselves within their narrow cultural zone and working 24/7 because they are just sh*t scared of being sent back form whence they came/not being able to afford the rent or mortgage/loosing health "benefits" (that should be rights).
Nicest bloke I ever knew was a Baronet. I didn't even know he was one until I read his obit !!!! Salt-of-the-earth type, slightly left of me politically....
And YES I've been trying to work this one out since we've been here. The US is far more class and status-divided that the UK (which itself is more class and status divided than most of Europe, although even places like France have a social pecking order once you scratch the surface).
What I really, really, really don't like about the status system here is that it is based on money. Everything is related to the nasty stuff - from schooling to healthcare. People rudely and arrogantly talk about money without considering whether they may be upsetting someone else's feelings. I have taken to asking people not to talk about money as I find it distasteful. The looks I get....
Connected with that is the way that people wear their badges of education as if it infers some "right" for them to be superior to you because they can afford it. Public education, especially in the Valley, is sneered at by some even though we have found the teachers and the education level to be just-as-good if not better than the UK. I have sat in business meetings with people that would be called total idiots in the UK to their face but they proudly state their qualifications as they introduce themselves expecting to be revered as demigods. And they are....
Everything about you - your car, your education, your Visa, your house/apartment/letting/owning status, your mobile phone - is used to judge and place you in a relative position with your "peers." Totally superficial and childish.
But my biggest issue is the arrogance and self-righteousness that seems ingrained in US culture - the belief that they are RIGHT and everyone else is WRONG. I have no problem with people being proud of their country, or of feeling allegiance to their fellow human beings (that is basic socialism...) and the Americans do that in spades. But what I do have an issue with is the inability to question accepted norms and practises in the way that I think Europeans do without it being seen as some form of high-treason. Not that people don't complain here - I hear them moan in private about the roads, the healthcare, the schools, etc, etc. But in public ? Never - the US is king.
I hate the way that religion is used as a manner of asserting their righteousness as well - Europe is secular now for a good reason, and most people are happy that individuals can carry-on their own beliefs in private. Here, it is in-your-face to the point where even in liberal, wacky-backy California, there is a college in the middle of Silicon Valley with 10,000 students enrolled that teaches "creationism" as part of it's Science class. Outrageous. (BTW, I know the Principal - well, we lived next door to him until I told him I was an atheist at which point he looked like he had just stepped in something nasty....)
I put a lot of this down to insecurity of youth (of country), the relatively recent internecine history in the US and a hard-line right-wing under-belly that believe they should be allowed to do what they want and f the rest of them. Unfortunately, being white, middle-aged, male it is automatically assumed that I fit that group whereas I would quite gladly float them all off to an island in the Pacific....
So, to the original point "Difficult to make friends in America?" - virtually impossible. Because once you understand what a judgmental society this is, you are always thinking "what is it you REALLY want from this relationship ?"
This.
This post nails it, but the poster expresses himself far more eloquently than I could have.
I never got the whole "class division" thing in the UK anyway. I never felt like a lower class, but I do here. Maybe if you're talking about a handful of toffs who went to Eton, I might agree, but in my daily life in the UK, I seldom felt judged, looked down or scrutinised like I do here, nor did I feel any pressure to compete.
Low social mobiity in the UK has more to do with dwindling manufacturing jobs rather than "class". An intelligent kid who grew up on a council estate could stil go to a top British university. It's much harder to do that here, especially for those born into a US ghetto, yet many Americans love to blame these people for their problems, while turning the other cheek.
People here will flaunt their wealth and their achievements right in your face. I'm not comfortable with that.
#64
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Joined: Jan 2011
Location: West Sussex - did 3 years in the US...
Posts: 577
Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
Are there not noticeable differences between, say, Scotland and England?
I was in Frankfurt three weeks ago at a meeting with people from all over Europe, and frankly, I felt far more affinity with those people despite the fact we are all from different countries and have different language skills than I do here.
#65
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
Please excuse my slightly cynical stance here, but we've been used-and-abused by groups offering "friendship" and then fleecing us for cash.
If I want to contribute to my local society, school, library, roads, etc, etc, I primarily do that via taxation so that everyone pays a fair amount. As passed by Prop 30 this last month, Californians finally realise that - relying on private fund-raising and philanthropy just doesn't work. We've known that in Europe for years. Cameron tried his "big society" ideas and it fell flat-on-it's-a**e. You can't trust Big Corporations to fund public works - they don't even pay their fair-share in in-country tax and dodge their social responsibilities at every turn. That is why Amazon, Starbucks and Apple were called-to-account this last week - I'm sure there are more of them out-there and it is time to call them in.
I'm not denigrating what you and your group do, but I just want to make friends on neutral terms - not related to money, good-deeds, competitions, etc, etc. Cuppa-tea/Kir-and-nibbles type friends.
It's impossible here.
If I want to contribute to my local society, school, library, roads, etc, etc, I primarily do that via taxation so that everyone pays a fair amount. As passed by Prop 30 this last month, Californians finally realise that - relying on private fund-raising and philanthropy just doesn't work. We've known that in Europe for years. Cameron tried his "big society" ideas and it fell flat-on-it's-a**e. You can't trust Big Corporations to fund public works - they don't even pay their fair-share in in-country tax and dodge their social responsibilities at every turn. That is why Amazon, Starbucks and Apple were called-to-account this last week - I'm sure there are more of them out-there and it is time to call them in.
I'm not denigrating what you and your group do, but I just want to make friends on neutral terms - not related to money, good-deeds, competitions, etc, etc. Cuppa-tea/Kir-and-nibbles type friends.
It's impossible here.
I'm sure the Daughters of the British Empire is legit and I'm glad CADreaming found it good. I haven't tried it myself, because I heard from others that our local group is comprised of real crusty old dragons.
#66
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Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Purgatory (PU, USA)
Posts: 860
Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
There are differences, but they are not as marked as they appear to be here.
I was in Frankfurt three weeks ago at a meeting with people from all over Europe, and frankly, I felt far more affinity with those people despite the fact we are all from different countries and have different language skills than I do here.
I was in Frankfurt three weeks ago at a meeting with people from all over Europe, and frankly, I felt far more affinity with those people despite the fact we are all from different countries and have different language skills than I do here.
So among many things, living in the US has taught me that us British people are a lot more "European" than we may think and have more in common with our Northern European fiends than we may think.
Last edited by Ethelred_the_Unready; Nov 14th 2012 at 5:35 pm.
#67
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
There are differences, but they are not as marked as they appear to be here.
I was in Frankfurt three weeks ago at a meeting with people from all over Europe, and frankly, I felt far more affinity with those people despite the fact we are all from different countries and have different language skills than I do here.
I was in Frankfurt three weeks ago at a meeting with people from all over Europe, and frankly, I felt far more affinity with those people despite the fact we are all from different countries and have different language skills than I do here.
#69
Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
Thank you for confirming my answer to Bob's question asking if there differences between the States - yes, there are. Big differences.
Regards, JEff
Regards, JEff
#70
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Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
So among many things, living in the US has taught me that us British people are a lot more "European" than we may think and have more in common with our Northern European fiends than we may think.
#71
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Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
My husband recently returned from a meeting in Hamburg and commented in a similar way. For one thing, the first thing they did on his arrival was take him on a massive drinking binge
#72
Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
How come we have never had a top-posting vs bottom-posting thread? Some other forums seem to be obsessed with the subject.
#74
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Re: Difficult to make friends in America?
Good point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
How come we have never had a top-posting vs bottom-posting thread? Some other forums seem to be obsessed with the subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
How come we have never had a top-posting vs bottom-posting thread? Some other forums seem to be obsessed with the subject.