garfro

Dont think lead was the only reason!!!
then again when was the last time they repainted/repiped the whitehouse
starting to make sense now

Lion in Winter

Yes, the USA forum is a kinder, gentler forum. We all put on refined accents and refrain from the gratuitous use of four letter words.

dbj1000

I can live with your politics (hell, I'm in Texas so I have to put up with politics like yours) but not your scientific/historical misinformation.

The population of Rome may have suffered from lead poisoning due to the lead water pipes they used (it's by no means proven).

Hatters, on the other hand, went mad due to inhalation of Mercury vapor released from solutions of Mercury salts used to make felt.

Now, don't let me stop you all calling each other Fascists because you don't agree with the other's viewpoint. I wouldn't want to interfere with such learned and eloquent debate!

AmerLisa

I do try....well until I have it copied and thrown back in my face.

Franklin

Oops ... there you go, my memory on the mad hatters was wrong. I stand corrected. As to Rome, maybe you are a bit wrong. My understanding is that the Romans in Rome used some lead lined (or partially lead lined) containers for their wine storage/making. Lead goes into solution quite nicely when the conditions are right, e.g., contents with an acidic pH. From memory, the Romans used a concentrate of some kind (I can't remember what it was called) with an acidic pH (less than 7). Lead pipes can be a problem if the water is soft, I don't know if the water in Rome was soft or hard, hard water areas that also have lead lined pipes have an easier time with lead, but soft water areas with lead pipes make for a very bad combination, soft water easily dissolves lead. Personally, I would rip the lead piping out no matter what. Lead based solder if used in pipe joints can be a problem too. I worked as a technician for a local water authority during a summer vacation, I was very familiar (still am I guess) with water chemistry and microbial issues. I've tested potable water for various parameters including, but not limited to, lead, Mg++, aluminum/aluminium, etc.

dbj1000

Thanks Franklin. That's quite interesting. I imagine that any sauce containing lemon juice would attack a lead-lined pot just like it eats through aluminium saucepans (just try boiling lemon juice in one - it's great fun when the bottom falls out!).

Of course aluminium ions in your food is now implicated in Altzheimer's. You don't happen to use aluminium pots and pans do you?

None of which should distract you from your rabid and quite insane rants about Fascist Democrats and the she-devil Hillary. Please carry on!

Franklin

No, I don't use Al pots thanks. As to Hillary, I only think she would be a disaster for the Democratic Party if she ends up running for the Presidential spot. So long as Hillary stays on the east coast I don't see a problem. The issue as to how she is seen is related to the view points of voters in the middle states, because it is they who are surely going to decide who is the next President. I think Dean is now in tune with that notion as per his recent statement about going softer on the pro-life issue. *shrugs*

dbj1000

I don't follow politics here, since I can't vote, but you've got me wondering:

What does "going softer on the pro-life issue" actually mean? Surely there isn't a soft-option or middle-ground solution that the Pro Life movement will find acceptable? They want abortion made illegal, and some are even prepared to kill to achieve this end.

So do you mean that Dean is about to come down on the side of anti-abortionists (let's use the real term, not skirt around it with all this Pro Life crap). If not, do you mean that he's going to appear to consider outlawing abortion? Is that all it takes to get the anti-abortion vote? Perhaps you mean that he's going to stop talking about the rights of women to choose to have an abortion? Surely that won't get him anywhere with people who believe that abortion is murder in the eyes of their God?

Do explain, please. The idea of "going softer on the pro-life issue" sounds like political bollocks to me, and I'd love to know what the real meaning is behind a line like that!

nxylas

Well, the Repugs are generally considered a pro-life party, but they allow pro-choice members like the Governator to reach positions of considerable power. The 'Rats, on the other hand, wouldn't even allow pro-life members to speak at fringe meetings at their national conference until recently. It now looks like they realise that it is a matter of conscience and that they can afford to tolerate a diversity of opinion on the matter.

Franklin

Ask Dean what he means. My understanding is that Dean wants the issue to be handled differently, "We do have to have a big tent. I do think we need to welcome pro-life Democrats into this party". I agree with him.

I have to say I like Howard Dean a LOT. I hated it when he got unfairly, imho, vilified by the press for that speech about winning in different states. Unfortunately, Dean is not liked by the voters in the middle states, that is abundantly clear - Iowa showed that. But I like him, I like his views, I respect him because he does not hide his views, what you see/hear is what you get with Dean. I consider him to be one of the great politicians of our time. An enormous talent that is partly going to waste. It is sad, but that's politics/showbusiness.

garfro

Im with you on that one......the guy is a straight talker that hasnt been corrupted by the broken Washington system.....but they would have got to him they always do!......thats why it needs fixing.

Franklin

Very straight talker, that's why I like him a lot. What you see is what you get with Dean, I can't but like him.

Celtic_Angel

ah but they don't come round!! and there's too many of them with the right to vote!! we end up getting screwed the same way they do only we know it!

Sarah

You really think Hilary is extreme left? Sheesh I thought that compared to someone I would consider very left ie, Aneurin Bevan, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock that she's positively central.
Also wouldn't the extreme left be the extreme communist left, not the extreme fascist left? nitpickin' I know.

Franklin

It's what the voters in the middle states think that's going to count in the next election. It seems a good proportion can be easily motivated and convinced to vote against her, especially if the Republican character assassins get going, and they will if she is picked to run. Imho, the Republican Party want Hillary to run, they will wheel out those pictures of her hugging Arafat's wife along with some commentary on the threat of world terrorism, and Hillary will be cooked to a crisp wafer, and then mulched with cold water and sent down the kitchen waste disposal, along with the Democratic Party's hopes.