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Defiant teenagers

Defiant teenagers

Old Aug 3rd 2005, 10:24 pm
  #1  
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Default Defiant teenagers

For the last two years we have been planning to emmigrate to Pennslyvania, I have a job to go to, but the RIR process and now PERM have taken a lot longer than we first thought. Things are now moving forward and
it looks like I may be getting my labor certification soon, which is great news.......BUT, my eldest daughter who will be 16 in december is adamant that she is not coming to live in the USA. Apart from dragging her on to the airplane kicking and screaming what can I do.

When she turns sixteen can I still force her to come or can she legally do her own thing.

To make things worse my youngest daughter is understandably saying that if herr sister doesn't come then she dosent want to either. If her older sister can be talked around then my youngest is happy to go.

This is causing alot of heartache at the moment. Any advice will be most welcome.

Thanks in advance

Andrew (deaks)
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Old Aug 3rd 2005, 10:54 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by deaks
This is causing alot of heartache at the moment. Any advice will be most welcome.
Sorry I can't help you with this..it must be a difficult time for everyone
my oldest is 9 so I'm not dealing with teenagers yet but couldn't you just let it lie for a while go along with your plans and when she really sees that you are leaving she'll change her mind..her fear of being left behind becoming greater than her fear of the unknown?

I've no idea about the legal aspect..aren't you a minor until you are 18? Is she leaving behind a boyfriend..will you be able to return to the U.k frequently?

hopefully when she sees you all getting excited she'll come round..good luck and don't be too hard on her...I remember being a teenager and I wouldn't have left my mates for anything... I've learned over the years I've been away ..the real friends always stay special...no matter how far away you are...msn messenger is a cool way to keep in touch.....and as for her new life in the States..maybe she'd be keener on the whole idea if she new what to expect..house neighbourhood school etc...can't you get her excited about where your moving too?...or haven't you chosen a particular area yet..maybe she could help in this decision process...it'd empower her a little...like I said I hope she comes round and comes over..Good luck!!
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Old Aug 3rd 2005, 11:04 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by deaks
For the last two years we have been planning to emmigrate to Pennslyvania, I have a job to go to, but the RIR process and now PERM have taken a lot longer than we first thought. Things are now moving forward and
it looks like I may be getting my labor certification soon, which is great news.......BUT, my eldest daughter who will be 16 in december is adamant that she is not coming to live in the USA. Apart from dragging her on to the airplane kicking and screaming what can I do.

When she turns sixteen can I still force her to come or can she legally do her own thing.

To make things worse my youngest daughter is understandably saying that if herr sister doesn't come then she dosent want to either. If her older sister can be talked around then my youngest is happy to go.

This is causing alot of heartache at the moment. Any advice will be most welcome.

Thanks in advance

Andrew (deaks)
Legally your 16 year old can walk out of the door whenever she wants to do so. She is allowed to live by herself. I don't know her situation (i.e. whether she is working or at school / college) but I would very much doubt whether she has the funds to support herself so I'm guessing she's playing on your emotions and when push comes to shove she will come with you. Obviously you are better able to judge this than I am.

As far as your younger daughter goes, she is not legally allowed to move out. She has no choice in the matter.

Maybe your daughters are just angry because they feel like their points of view are not being taken into account and that you are uprooting them and changing their lives without their say-so. Have you sat them down and explained how the move will benefit the whole family?

Remember that teenagers are incredibly selfish human beings so don't be surprised if they don't see your point of view and are way more worried about losing their friends!

I really hope you manage to work everything out without causing a major family rift.
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Old Aug 3rd 2005, 11:30 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by Wintersong
Legally your 16 year old can walk out of the door whenever she wants to do so. She is allowed to live by herself. I don't know her situation (i.e. whether she is working or at school / college) but I would very much doubt whether she has the funds to support herself so I'm guessing she's playing on your emotions and when push comes to shove she will come with you. Obviously you are better able to judge this than I am.

As far as your younger daughter goes, she is not legally allowed to move out. She has no choice in the matter.

Maybe your daughters are just angry because they feel like their points of view are not being taken into account and that you are uprooting them and changing their lives without their say-so. Have you sat them down and explained how the move will benefit the whole family?

Remember that teenagers are incredibly selfish human beings so don't be surprised if they don't see your point of view and are way more worried about losing their friends!

I really hope you manage to work everything out without causing a major family rift.
Thanks for the replies.

At the moment my eldest is 15, but she will be 16 in December. Hopefully we will be moving over prior to that.

My youngest who is 13 really wants to go, but is upset at the idea of leaving hjer sister behind. To be honest, the idea of going without my eldest daughter leaves me feeling sick to my stomach.

I need to convince her to come over and try it for say 6 months. And then if she really hates it that much, then she can return to the UK, but only after she has her green card. She can then make an informed descision on which place is the best for her.

She wants to become a dance teacher. Next term (starting september) she will be starting her GCSE exams, so all this couldn't come at a worse time.

At what age do US kids take there exams? What kind of studying is she going to have to do to become a teacher in the US.

She says she will never forgive me if I force her to go, I feel sure that once she is there and settled in all this grief will be a thing of the past.

The biggest battle is going to be getting her on the plane.

Thanks again

Andrew (deaks)
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Old Aug 3rd 2005, 11:37 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by deaks
Thanks for the replies.

At the moment my eldest is 15, but she will be 16 in December. Hopefully we will be moving over prior to that.

My youngest who is 13 really wants to go, but is upset at the idea of leaving hjer sister behind. To be honest, the idea of going without my eldest daughter leaves me feeling sick to my stomach.

I need to convince her to come over and try it for say 6 months. And then if she really hates it that much, then she can return to the UK, but only after she has her green card. She can then make an informed descision on which place is the best for her.

She wants to become a dance teacher. Next term (starting september) she will be starting her GCSE exams, so all this couldn't come at a worse time.

At what age do US kids take there exams? What kind of studying is she going to have to do to become a teacher in the US.

She says she will never forgive me if I force her to go, I feel sure that once she is there and settled in all this grief will be a thing of the past.

The biggest battle is going to be getting her on the plane.

Thanks again

Andrew (deaks)
The US doesn't really go in for big external exams, it's more continuous assessment throughout the school career - see this site for more details:

http://www.fulbright.co.uk/eas/studyus/schoolstudy/

I don't know how easy it will be for her to graduate high school at such a late stage. I'm sure there are people on here with older kids who will be able to help you with that one.

Maybe she could then decide to come back to the UK to study for her teaching degree?

Have you looked into the possibilities of her doing her GCSE exams in the US, since she will have basically completed the courses anyway? I don't know how feasible this option is.

I'm sure she'll come round as she starts to think more about the logistics of living in the UK without you. I'm also sure that she'll make loads of great friends over here. It must seem like the end of the world to her though. Hopefully other parents who have gone through this will be able to give you better advice.
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Old Aug 4th 2005, 12:53 am
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by deaks

At what age do US kids take there exams? What kind of studying is she going to have to do to become a teacher in the US.

She says she will never forgive me if I force her to go, I feel sure that once she is there and settled in all this grief will be a thing of the past.
Errr....kids in school till 18, and take exams to graduate....so it's a bit different from gcse's and A-levels....as for getting transcripts, there's been a few threads on the matter you might be able to find on the subject, I think there was one pretty recently as well.

As for teaching, that'll really depend on the state in which she wants to teach in, but a liberal arts degree would be a start...
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Old Aug 4th 2005, 7:39 am
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by deaks
For the last two years we have been planning to emmigrate to Pennslyvania, I have a job to go to, but the RIR process and now PERM have taken a lot longer than we first thought. Things are now moving forward and
it looks like I may be getting my labor certification soon, which is great news.......BUT, my eldest daughter who will be 16 in december is adamant that she is not coming to live in the USA. Apart from dragging her on to the airplane kicking and screaming what can I do.

When she turns sixteen can I still force her to come or can she legally do her own thing.

To make things worse my youngest daughter is understandably saying that if herr sister doesn't come then she dosent want to either. If her older sister can be talked around then my youngest is happy to go.

This is causing alot of heartache at the moment. Any advice will be most welcome.

Thanks in advance

Andrew (deaks)
Hello Andrew

We are moving to Pittsburgh in September and I have three daughters 16yrs, 14yrs and 10yrs.
My 16 year old has mixed feelings and earlier in the year was very unhappy about moving because she didn't know what to expect.
To help her and all of us we went over for a week and looked at the area we will be living in.
We are lucky in that the company my husband will be working for are providing a relocation package although they didn't pay for this trip.
We worked with a realtor all week and she took us everywhere and we finally found a house. She took us to the high school they will be going to and the school have been great. My husbands future boss took us out with his teenage children and also arranged for our daughters to meet other teenagers. We left the two eldest in the shopping mall with some dollars and they got talking to other teenagers in the shops.

We had a really positive time there and everyone we met was so nice.

It was all hugely expensive at a time when we need all the cash to be in the bank but it was worth it. My 16 year old is much happier and now mostly looks forward to going. She still has some doubts and isn't looking forward to leaving her friends.
We were lucky it worked because she could have hated it and it would have made things worse.
Does your eldest use MSN? Mine is always on it perhaps they could get together on line.
Judith
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Old Aug 4th 2005, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by deaks
For the last two years we have been planning to emmigrate to Pennslyvania, I have a job to go to, but the RIR process and now PERM have taken a lot longer than we first thought. Things are now moving forward and
it looks like I may be getting my labor certification soon, which is great news.......BUT, my eldest daughter who will be 16 in december is adamant that she is not coming to live in the USA. Apart from dragging her on to the airplane kicking and screaming what can I do.

When she turns sixteen can I still force her to come or can she legally do her own thing.

To make things worse my youngest daughter is understandably saying that if herr sister doesn't come then she dosent want to either. If her older sister can be talked around then my youngest is happy to go.

This is causing alot of heartache at the moment. Any advice will be most welcome.

Thanks in advance

Andrew (deaks)
deaks lad.

you're the Dad. tell them they have bugger all of an opinion. and that they'll be coming.

don't spare the birch.
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Old Aug 4th 2005, 1:08 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by Manc
deaks lad.

you're the Dad. tell them they have bugger all of an opinion. and that they'll be coming.

don't spare the birch.

Glad you're not my dad.
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Old Aug 4th 2005, 2:37 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by Manc
deaks lad.

you're the Dad. tell them they have bugger all of an opinion. and that they'll be coming.

don't spare the birch.

Superb !!
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Old Aug 4th 2005, 2:46 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by Manc
deaks lad.

you're the Dad. tell them they have bugger all of an opinion. and that they'll be coming.

don't spare the birch.

Exactly.
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Old Aug 4th 2005, 2:48 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Just a question if you are going through lc or perm how comes you are not in the US already?

Difficult situation and one that we have sort of faced ourselves in our move over here in 2000. Our kids then were 15, almost 13 and almost 11. In sense it wasn't as difficult move for us as it was meant to a temporary move and we were only coming for 14 months.

Our eldest daughter was in the middle of her standard grades and would have taken her exams on our return. Little did we appreciate how different education is over here. At the time, her US high school was on what is called the 'block system' which is basically 4 subjects are taught over a semester, every day and every week. There are 2 semesters in a year so you gain 8 'credits' each year if you pass the subject. High school is for 4 yrs and to graduate you must have 24 credits. its changed slightly since then but it still based on credits, not exams.

There are what are called graduation plans and each specifies how many credits you must have in each subject. Subjects are taught in order. For Example, 4 english credits, 3 math credits, US History, US government, 3 sciences,2 foreign language, computer science and several own choice subjects. Seems simple enough. However, Elisabeth arrived at the end of her Freshman year and on her return to school in August, discovered that she was still a freshman because none of her work in Scotland had been recognised, despite us providing reports and examples of her work. To cut a long story short, we had to contact her Scottish school, who provided detailed information about her work and grades and then she had to work out with her couselor which would be counted as credits. In the end she was given enough credits to become a sophomore and slightly more.

She still found in classes like English and French she was way ahead. However in Math she struggled because in the UK math is taught as an entity not separate subjects as it taught here. She didn't get a credit for physics because she hadn't done biology or chemistry, you have to do science in an order. So when she did do physics she sailed through it has she had had already done 2 yrs of the subject. In the end she graduated early and started community college when she was 17.5, starting university at 18.

She is now 20 and a senior at University whereas her boyfriend is 22 and only just becoming a senior which is common. Its actually not his fault that he is so behind because he was involved in the serious car accident at the end of his freshman yr (as was Elisabeth) so he was unable to complete his classes. So he had to repeat his classes as they dont take exams like many of the universities in the UK, but credits, like high school, which are based on continual assessment. Also because he is on a popular course (graphic design as we call in the UK) believe it or not, sometimes there aren't enough spaces for everyone to do the required classes.

University is whole different ball game I can tell you and expensive. Just paid this semester's first installment, $1863.00. In all we are paying $17,000 for tution and accommodation each year, which apparently is cheap. Our daughter attending an in state university however if she attended an out of state university we could probably double that amount. University is similar to high school in that to graduate you have accummulate enough hours, I am not sure but I think for Elisabeth's Biology degree she will need about 120 hours.

All of the above applies to Texas and our particular school district, each small town seems to have their own school district, at least here. Your state and school district will have different ways of doing things, so it will be best to check with the local school on their system.

Anyway the long and short of it, is that yes your daughter will find it hard to adjust but she should at least give it a try, the US has lots of foreign exchange students over for a year who see it as part of their education, she could view it that way and if she really doesn't like it, you have already given her the option of returning.

As an aside, our daughter is currently in Scotland with the view to returning to do her PHD there in 2007. She is not unhappy over here but she still feels that the UK is her home, more liberal, able to talk her mind and generally be accepted as an adult. The complication is that she has a boyfriend (4 yrs) who is Texan through and through (think GWB, huntin' and fishin' type). She's in a right quandry at the moment, I can tell yer.
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Old Aug 4th 2005, 2:49 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

Originally Posted by Manc
deaks lad.

you're the Dad. tell them they have bugger all of an opinion. and that they'll be coming.

don't spare the birch.
You know, this is what I basically did with my 15 (almost 16) year old daughter when we moved to the UK. Not that I had anything to do with the birch but I told her there were no options and she had to come. Not quite sure that I would do that again, but she survived and ended up staying in the UK....something about independence from me. Brat!
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Old Aug 5th 2005, 8:31 am
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

My son was almost 11 when we moved to the US and was absolutely devastated when he left England. He will be 14 next week and definitely does not want to move back to the UK. We are in England at the moment visiting relatives and he cannot believe that he ever wanted to stay in England.

I would try and persuade your daughter to move with you for 12/18 months and give her the option of moving back to the UK after that. I am almost certain that after this time she will not want to move back to the UK.
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Old Aug 5th 2005, 12:31 pm
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Default Re: Defiant teenagers

The legal postion is this:

At 16 she is able to live on her own and support herself if she has completed her full time education. I.e once shes taken here GCEs she can legally move out and work to support herself with your permission. However, until she reaches the age of majority (ie 18) you are legally responsible for her. Which brings the question of what would you do if she ever came into trouble while you were in the States and she wasnt. (Trouble could simply be loss of job and housing or legal trouble). In the eyes of the law you would still be her legal gaurdian and responsible and could be made to return to the UK if she were arrested for instance.

The 13 year old has no options.

So basically, its the parents ruling that counts legally. Of course that doesnt help much if she literraly does go to the plane kicking and screaming since you cannot use force beyond whats reasonable to ensure her safety to make her get on the plane. (You couldnt tie her up and bundle her physically onto the plane to make her go)

Personally I would'nt emigrate without her if either A) she was well looked after and able to fend for herself longterm or B) She reaches 18. By then you'll have another nearly 16 year old of course.

My daughter created a fuss about coming (missing friends etc) even though she was much younger but within 3 months of being here she loved it was more integrated than us and wouldnt even contemplate returning to the UK.

Good luck whatever you choose.
 

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