Debt Help needed
 

I divorced a few years ago leaving me nothing but the debt which included around 25,000 gbp with 3 credit cards. I moved to the US 2 years ago and due to health reason, didn't work for a while, therefore nothing was paid. I then secureda low paid job and with the help of a debt management co. in the UK I managed to negotiate a monthly payments to the card companies. (My new girlfriend also helped me meet the payments). With the exchange rate the way it is and with wiring costs I just found it impossible to pay these every month, so done the real sensible thing and stuck my head in the sand and stopped paying them.
Now out of the bluse a company calls me from Illinois, claiming to have bought MBNA card debt and info and they now want payment. My 2 questions are:
1. Does this mean I now have bad debt in the UK and the US?
2. Is it legal to sell my debt and info to a US company?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

yes
and
yes

Re: Debt Help needed
 

At which point do people believe that not paying back their debts is a sensible idea???

I left the UK with three credit card balances and a personal loan all of which get paid monthly. I would never consider sticking my head in the sand with them. It's irresponsible.

Grow up and pay your debts.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Manc, thanks for the straight forward answers, just as I thought really.

Rincewind, At which point did I say that not paying the debts were a sensible idea????
I came on here to seek some advice regarding something, what I didn’t ask for or deserve is some self righteous tosser giving me a lecture on growing up and responsibilities. You have no idea what my personal circumstances are, except for the ones I described and I didn’t go into a lot of detail about it. I think if you knew anything of my past, you may not have been so quick to judge, than again, maybe not.
Anyway, I’m happy that your life is moving on nicely, but maybe you should look outside your own insular views and see that some people maybe aren’t as lucky as you, with regards to earning, health, etc.
Thanks again for the advice..

Re: Debt Help needed
 

If you've really got nothing it sounds like you might be a good candidate for bankruptcy. The company in IL will end up with next to nothing and no way to reclaim it. The obvious question is whether the other two compaines will wait for you to clear US bankruptcy before they move your debts over here.

BTW, I should stress that I'm no lawyer so take that advise with a big salty pinch of salty salt.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

;p

You have posted in what is pretty much a public forum so don't be surprised that you get responses that might come across as critical. If you can't take the criticism, you shouldn't have posted in such a public place.

I do not know the answers to your questions but if I were in your shoes, I'd search on the web to see whether you in fact have bad debt in both the UK and US. Whatever the answer may be, you should have researched this before, as you put it sticking "your head in the sand and stopped paying them".

As you may be aware, leaving the UK with outstanding debts would probably cause you major problems should you ever wish to live in the UK in the future.




NC Penguin

Re: Debt Help needed
 

You are so welcome :D

Before coming to a forum, how about learning to structure your posts to actually say what they mean. Sentences such as "so done the real sensible thing and stuck my head in the sand and stopped paying them" sort of gives the impression that you don't feel paying your debts is important.

If that is not what you meant, I suggest rewording to make your point more clear.

As for me being lucky, I am no such thing. I struggle every day to make ends meet and to ensure my debts are covered back in England as well as paying my bills here. You have no idea of my personal circumstances either.

When I read posts that suggest non-payment of debts, it kinda pisses me off. And there have been plenty of threads where people seem to think they can just walk away from their responsibilities.

As advice, speak to a financial advisor who would be more than happy to take your money just so you can feel like you've done something.

And I have looked inside myself. I like what I see. It makes me warm and fuzzy.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Sure that's not the booze? :D

Re: Debt Help needed
 

This is not a free advice service. It is a site for people to express their opinions. Stop being so lazy and search the forum - there are several threads with exactly the advice you need. You'll also find opinion there. If you don't want the opinion, then read between the posts, or pay a lawyer to answer your questions.

For the record, I understand and sympathize that some people can genuinely not pay back debt. In those cases, there are still responsible avenues for reconciling the situation. You did not follow these way back and now you're whining that it seems someone is holding you accountable. Tough luck. Don't expect sympathy from everyone.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Maybe a little ;)

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Ok, for everyone this. I assure you that I'm aware that this is not a free advice service, I just thought that other fellow Brits may have been in the same situation at some point. This is my first time on the forum and didn't realise there was a search option. Try reading the the questions again.
Never, at any time, did I say that I was trying to avoid paying. I was being self critical when I mentioned that I stuck mt head in the sand. Believe me. I wish I could get the funds to repay these responsibilities and I'm hoping that in the near future I will be in the position to repay something on a monthly basis.
Thanks for the warm welcome by the way.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Its a great shame, that some people come across as real arsholes, on here, but most are good helpfull Brits!!! and bring a smile to my face when reading this cite, good luck anyway.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Thanks Brit Vic, I'm sure I'll get it all sorted through time. As for arseholes, ah well, each to their own eh? Life's too short.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Considering the two of you have 13 posts between you, your observations are laughable. Try searching back through the posts of some of the "arseholes", and you'll find that generally we are extremely helpful and have spent hours giving useful advice. But sometimes we just tell it like it is, especially when a neophyte asks for free advice and gets all whingy when they get opinion in return.

Like I said, if you try searching the site (you know, using the Search facility that most Web sites have) you'll find plenty of helpful advice on the topic of debt problems - you might be surprised to find that some of that advice came from "us arseholes". Or maybe you'd prefer to pay some lawyer $250 an hour to tell you the same thing we will.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

calm calm down.....everyone needs to take a chill pill.

There is no easy way to pay off credit card debt back in the U.K, out of my $250 check I send, only 65 quid actually comes off the account, its ball breaking I know, but its just got to be done.

I have noticed though, that people tend to jump down new-posters neck on similar subjects, so lets not be hasty and help a little.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Dunroving, I don't know why I've upset you, but if I have I apologise. As I explained, I didn't realise there was a site search and if that offends you, I also apologise for that.
When did you tell me like it is? I asked 2 questions and as far as I can see you haven't even tried to answer them. All you've done is decided that I'm trying to avoid paying these debts, which I'm not, and getiing whingy because of the "telling it like it is", which I'm not. Just finding it a bit strange that I look at a forum where many people ask advice on a multitude of subjects and you're right, get decent and good natured answers, but I ask a couple of questions, I get "grow up", etc. I shall repeat that I never once said that I have no intention to repay the debts.
"Don't expect sympathy from everyone". Not looking for sympathy, just looking for some good honest advice from good honest people. Sorry again if this offends you.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

You not able to pay quaterly instead of monthly? Save on the transfer fees and the like...never know, might be worth asking?

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Well, for a start you called me an arsehole - I don't think I used that kind of language on you, I was just up front with you.

Just to show I'm not a complete arsehole, look here: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105504 for a previous thread which I think you'll find enlightening. You'll see a post from me partway down with links to two other similar threads. I believe the second of these threads might be a little too much for you as it contains some pretty damning condemnation of people who don't accept responsibility for their debts. So, it comes with a parental warning.

Before you go calling me an arsehole again, please read through the entirety of these threads to get a better perspective of who I am - and if you still think I'm an arsehole after that, fair enough.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Dunrovin,

I never at any time called you an Arsehole, you'll find that this is what I replied to Brit Vic
"Thanks Brit Vic, I'm sure I'll get it all sorted through time. As for arseholes, ah well, each to their own eh? Life's too short."
If you take from that that I meant you then thats up to you.
As I say, I asked 2 civil questions and you took it upon yourself to call me lazy, say I was whining and that I didn't follow the way of getting out. Well if thats the way you see the situation with the minimum of facts thats fine by me.
I'm not on here for an argument. I just happened across this site as I'm new to the web and thought it might be good to "chat" to fellow expats and maybe get some help along the way.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Nice one :D

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Hehe...aye, nice pic :)

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Thanks for that Bob. It has never been offered but I will ask, nothing to lose and will save me quite a few $$$$$$

Re: Debt Help needed
 

You're welcome. It only took me about 10 minutes to find those old threads for you. Glad to help.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

I am not trying to undermine other comments but actually:

1. No.

2. this is not possible. Debt liability can not be transferred from the UK to a US company, this is not legally possible.

On the wider issue of dealing with debts i suggest strongly you check out other previous posts. I am not starting a new discussion on this issue as i am tired of it.

I suggest you refuse payment to the ILL company unless they produce evidence of a UK court order and the subseqeunt US court order for enforcement of this order in your current state jurisdiction.

You should also take steps to resolve the debt in the UK before it ends up as a CCJ registered against you and buggers your credit for 6 years.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Hey, Duncs, I was hoping you'd jump in at some point. Haven't seen you too much lately. Are they treating you all right at Harvard?

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Nice of you to ask. Its ok. Lots of nice interesting folks, including a good few other Brits. Course can be a bit tedious at times especially all the mathematics.

I didnt want to have another major discussion on the ethics of paying or not paying debts but i felt it was important to clarify the issue of whether debts could be easily transferred. It is important to remember that the foundation of all debt liability is in contract law. In that way it operates on a jurisdiction by jurisdiction basis and its usually only enforceable in the jurisdiction in which the contract was made unless the agreement specifically states otherwise ie a term that says the law of england and wales applies to a contract made in scotland etc. Enforcement overseas is a really big hassle and people have a major piece of leverage available to them if they use the fact of their non Uk residence. However i do not advocate putting your head in the sand debts generally wont just go away if you ignore them and in many cases the 6 years limit in the statute of limitations can be avoided by simplying getting summary judgement. this is easy enough if no defendant appears to enter a defence to a writ and then you sit on your judgement until the person comes home or you move to enforce in the USA(hassle and expensive to do but possible).

It seems best to be precise though in these matters so just trying to help.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Might be something to do with the fact that MBNA is an American company that they have tracked you down? Seems a bit dodgy thought selling UK debt to US company! Proper legal advice would be the best way to go I reckon

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Dodgy and impossible. What kind of idiot buys a non enforceable contractual liability? Transfer of debts works by selling the contractual liability to another party for a reduced fee on the debt amount, usually around 5% of the total debt by the way. MBNA is a multinational is UK operation is a seperate legal entity registered as a company in the UK. It cannot legally transfer information or debts between its UK and USA arms. doesnt mean they dont try though i suppose. Seriously tell the US company to **** off and sort out your debts with MBNA UK.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Thanks Duncs and everyone else. Been really helpful. When the US company called, I asked them to call me back the next night as I was in the middle of something. They never called back.....strange. Maybe they were just chancing their arm.

I have been in touch with the CC companies since I made the original post and offered payments. Just waiting for them to accept or decline.

Thanks again.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

I don't know -- I think Big D has a point here.

MBNA is a US company with its international headquarters in Delaware with several overseas operations, including in the UK. Ultimately MBNA is a US bank, so it's not too far-fetched that they made an internal decision to charge off this account and sell it to a 3rd party debt collector in the States, where the OP is now living.

To answer the OP's question, "Is it legal to sell my debt and info to a US company?" -- my answer would be yes, I believe it is, since MBNA is a US bank, and you currently live in the US.

FWIW, I opened an MBNA (US) account last year, and when I asked if I could transfer a balance from my husband's British credit card account, I was told yes -- as long as his account wasn't with MBNA (UK). If it was then that would be considered an internal balance transfer, which MBNA (and most credit card companies) doesn't allow. The fact that my account was MBNA (US) and his was MBNA (UK) was irrelevant -- MBNA=MBNA.

~ Jenney

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Seriously i am not making it up or pulling it out of my ass here. Contracts in the UK are NOT enforceable in the USA. Ok thats my assessment of the legal position. Not my gut, or hunch, my opinion backed by professional knowledge. In the case of MBNA UK to USA it would be 1) UK contract with MBNA UK, you acquire CC debt. 2) New U.S contract with MBNA USA 3) MBNA USA make a payment to MBNA UK in the form of a U.S $ to £ transfer of funds. MBNA UK deem your liabilities paid and cancel contract. This is fine but is not a transfer of your UK legal contract to MBNA USA it is a new contract enforceable in the jurisdiction of the USA. Can you recognise the difference?

Honestly i am not trying to be smug but the walls of national legal soveriegnty have not collapsed yet.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

I thought when debt was sold, assuming the contract did not allow debt to transfer, that effectively the buyer took over the rights of the seller and acted as agent in pursueing those rights.

Must have a look at my UK CC accounts, but I would also expect that the contract is with a UK entity with specific jurisdiction to the UK courts.

But there is a seperate issue in where the collection agency is and where that agency would have to take matters further if legal action was required.

Re: Debt Help needed
 

In hindsight and it may not be "sensible" as such, but for future reference.. maybe if people leave a country and a handful of debt, and once have a job, they could get a "personal loan" or whatever you call them in U.S etc.. to consolidate your debts... that way you pay off the debt in the said country, and then have 1 loan payment in your current country, and if you have difficulty keeping the repayment, call the compnay that holds your loan to re noegotiate payments. Company's just want there money which is fair enough, so if you call and advice when you have a change of circumstance they are usually more than willing to help. It cost them more money if you go into bad debt, some of which you get lumbered with ontop of your outstanding debt. The earlier you call the better.

Yes your getting a new debt, to pay off other debts, but it is ONE loan, and ONE repayment and personal loans are almost always a lower interest rate.

The bottom lines are debt will not go away, despite changing countrys, it will follow you, the longer you leave it the higher it gets, and they will find you, you will have a bad credit rating, and bankruptsy should be your last and final option as this is the worst form of debt escape. It should also be noted that when you "declare" bankruptsy that its not just a case of poof your debts are gone, in some cases you still have to pay a certain amount per dollar of your debt, and it ruins your life, much much worse than a "bad mark" on your credit file.

You cant just run and hide.. you have to ACT, to avoid strife, if your old enought to get a loan your old enought to be responsible for it, no matter what life throws at you. Circumstances change, companys/lenders get that. They are not the devil..... until you let it go to far. :)

Re: Debt Help needed
 

Ouch $250 to £65.

I had to pay a UK CC off when I first got here, the money went from my Citibank account to Halifax in the UK then to the CC company via wire transfer. The international transfer fee from Citibank was about $20, out of the $250 I was transferring monthly at least £100 was being paid off.

-tom