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Culture shock?

Culture shock?

Old Aug 9th 2002, 12:27 pm
  #31  
Michael D. Young
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Default Re: Culture shock?

Perdue wrote:

    > OK, Michael, so you wouldn't want to live anywhere else, America is the greatest,
    > and you are ever so proud to be American...what would happen if the one you loved
    > wasn't able, for whatever reason, to join you in the US?

Well that would have probably been the end of things, since there was no way in hell
I would live in the Philippines.

    > If you went to her country, be it Russia, Holland, Canada, Venezuela,
    > Namibia...would you say to yourself, "well, ok, here I am, let's toss it all and
    > become a citizen of this fab new country"? After all, it's where you live, you
    > must be just dying to become a citizen, no?

If I did go there and intended to remain there the rest of my life I guess I
would do it.

    > Not all of us immigrants "chose" to come here. I am here because of my husband.
    > No more, no less. I left a lot to come to this country and I don't begrudge that.
    > But I do get offended at people insisting that I must be just dying to become
    > American, because, after all, what else is there.

Yes you are very lucky to be here, because there is probably a billion people that
would love to take your place.

    > I am not entirely certain that I want to become an American citizen. But at this
    > point I have no intention of going back. I am here because I love my husband, and
    > being here makes him happy. To suggest I have less value to your country because I
    > am "only" a registered alien is belittling. To suggest that I pack up and go back
    > to where I came from because I may or may not choose citizenship suggests to me
    > that your future wife may have a harder time ahead than she expects.

She intends to apply when eligible. Printed out the questions yesterday.

    > Homesickness is not a weakness, nor is recognizing your own country's faults.
    > America is not the paragon of perfection you would portray it as, although it has
    > many fine qualities, and many fiine citizens.

America isn't heaven, it provides more freedom and opportunity than any other
country.

    > I suggest you do a little traveling...spend a little time looking around the world
    > to appreciate what you have, and to appreciate why not everyone thinks it's as
    > desirable as you do.

Been to Brazil, Ireland and Philippines and I was glad to be back in the USA
each time.


Take care,

Mike
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 12:33 pm
  #32  
Michael D. Young
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Default Re: Culture shock?

XtrynytiX wrote:

    > >America is not the paragon of perfection you would portray it as, although it has
    > >many fine qualities, and many fiine citizens.
    > >
    > Here, here......
    > And it's views like Michael's that gain America the *arrogant, brash and you only
    > exist, because we allow it* reputation.
    > America is a fine country......but it's not the be all and end all of
    > civilisation...I'm from the UK and you'd be amazed at just how may American's think
    > I'm from a third world country. Numerous Americans are still unaware that there is
    > life beyond their own shores.
    > I'm fed up personally of....I bet you don't get this in the UK...or I bet you don't
    > get that.....Say what? lol.
    > And it's ok Michael......I fled back to my own shores.....after four months in the
    > States, I knew I could never make it my home. England is where I needed to be, and
    > that's exactly where I am. So one less *immigrant* for you to rant about. lmao!

I never said I objected to people coming here to live. Just if you do stay, you
apply for citizenship at some point. If you prefer the U.K. over the U.S. that's
your choice, but at least you were honest about it and went home.


Take care,

Mike
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 12:45 pm
  #33  
Michael D. Young
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Default Re: Culture shock?

andrewdean wrote:

    > Yes I gave up $100,000 income working in the oil business and took a job at half
    > that to be with my wife.

OK that's one. I stand corrected.

    > As to your idea of no AP, why not just say no one can travel. As after all in your
    > opion why should they want to leave america. In fact maybe you can test this for us
    > by moving across america and not travelling home to see your family and friends for
    > five years.

Yes it would be tough, but that's the point. You better be darn sure you want to do
this before you rush into coming here.

    > As to loev only being temporary, if this is your idea of how to enter into
    > marriage, then maybe that explains how some people seem yo treat marriage like they
    > would cars. As soon as you get tired of it, trade it and get a new one. I
    > personnaly got married for life and we actullay plan to stay in love till we die.I
    > suggest you check what the marriage vows are next time or do you merely think you
    > should say them and then forget them when it does not suit you.

I'm not saying you stop loving each other, but the honeymoon doesn't last forever.
You have to deal with everyday life at some point.

    > I do not know about you but do happen to love my parents and family. Although I
    > miss some things about home I also enjoy otherthings about america. Same as my wife
    > likes certain things about Scotland, it is called being open to diversity and new
    > experiences.

We are talking moving there to live. Would your wife do that?

    > So in your opion everyone should become a US citizen and forget thier hertage. So
    > much for the land of the free. What happened to your ideas of freedom of choice?

No just citizenship and become a U.S. citizen at some point.

    > As to if you do not like the rules then do not come. What happened to the idea if
    > you do not like the rules then campaign to get them changed.

You become a U.S. citizen and can vote, then you can change things. Not a citizen,
you have no say in how this country is run. That's one of the reasons the president
must be a natural born U.S. citizen. You don't want people running the country with
their loyalties with another country and I feel until you become a U.S. citizen you
loyalties are not with the U. S.

Take care,

Mike
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 12:50 pm
  #34  
Michael D. Young
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Default Re: Culture shock?

Andy Platt wrote:

    > "Michael D. Young" <[email protected]> wrote ...
    > > Shannon wrote:
    > >
    > > > So, two weeks before my AOS interview I announced to my husband that "I don't
    > > > want to BE an American". He said "what, you don't want to live here?". I
    > > > said, "sure, we can live here but I don't want to BECOME... like.. American".
    > > Well if you don't ever want to become a U.S. citizen and miss your "home
    > > country", I suggest you go back.
    > On your rather idiotic rant against people who choose to live in a country but not
    > become citizens of that country again Michael? She didn't say she didn't want to
    > become a US citizen (whether she does or not is irrelevant) . She said she doesn't
    > want to become an American. And she won't - she can't, just as I can't.

OK, I apologize if that's not what he met, but I have seemed to hit a nerve with a
few people and they sure don't intend to become one.


What is so idiotic about making sure people that come here are coming for the right
reasons and must become a citizen. My idea let you remove conditions and become a
citizen at the same time, but you must do it.

Take care,

Mike
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 12:52 pm
  #35  
Michael D. Young
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Default Re: Culture shock?

Steve wrote:

    > So let me get this straight - if someone comes to this country to live, but doesn't
    > want to be a full-fledged citizen or think the US is the greatest country on earth,
    > then they should leave, yes? Is that what you're advocating?

No just become a citizen. You are a citizen then you have a right to complain.



Take care,

Mike
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 1:05 pm
  #36  
Des
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Default Re: Culture shock?

Mike,

you're such a joker.

Could you imagine falling in love with a person, rather than the country of his
citizenship? Could you imagine loving exactly these little differences about your
spouse, i.e. the fact that he possesses a different citizenship from yours? Could you
imagine that some people will never have the option to become US Citizens because
they would then lose their birth citizenship (as in Austria, Germany for example)?

In your opinion, what should those people do - give up their birth right, part of
their identity/family/culture, just because they have fallen in love with an American
citizen? Why would they want to restrict their options live, travel and work in other
countries over the course of their lives? And what if a marriage does not work out,
then a naturalized citizen without his/her birth citizenship, who acquired their
spouses' citizenship out of love would be "stuck" in the US with no option to return
"home" if they still felt that their birth country was "home"?

I personally feel that most people who have a true marriage will move to the US for
their spouse, the person they want to spend the rest of their life with, and not to
acquire a citizenship. I for one do not even have the option to do so, and it has
never been an issue at all.

- Des
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 1:05 pm
  #37  
Quinkman
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Default Re: Culture shock?

<< Subject: Re: Culture shock? From: [email protected] (XtrynytiX) Date: Fri, Aug 9,
2002 5:02 AM Message-id: <[email protected]>
>>


<< America is a fine country......but it's not the be all and end all of
civilisation...I'm from the UK and you'd be amazed at just how may American's think
I'm from a third world country. Numerous Americans are still unaware that there is
life beyond their own shores. >>


Been to England and it is looking more like a third world country each day.

Glad you're still speaking English, since if it weren't for the U.S.A. we'd be
reading your message in German which I have no desire to do. Long live the King
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 1:06 pm
  #38  
Andy Platt
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Default Re: Culture shock?

"Michael D. Young" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > As to your idea of no AP, why not just say no one can travel. As after all in
    > > your opion why should they want to leave america. In fact maybe you can test this
    > > for us by moving across america and not travelling home to see your family and
    > > friends for five years.
    > Yes it would be tough, but that's the point. You better be darn sure you want to
    > do this before you rush into coming here.

It's bizarre. On most issues, you write intelligently, coherently and with logic.
On this issue you have your head stuck up your arse and can't see the daylight for
all the shit that's there. I don't usually personalize issues but in this case you
are the only idiot propagating your (and I repeat what I've said before) xenophobic
attitudes here who should have enough intelligence not to. I'll litter this
response with a few childish insults just to descend to your intellectual level *on
this issue*.

You seem to think that US citizens marrying foreigners need to have extra obstacles
put in their way just to test them. Perhaps you think you are designing some sort of
reality TV show? There are so many reasons why saying "you have to stay here until
you are a permanent resident" is a completely retarded concept, I wonder why I'm
descending to your level on this issue and responding but I feel I have to so I'll
list three:

a) Once again, many of us would prefer to live in our home countries and for their
spouses to move there with them. But some of us have more respect for our spouses
than you obviously do and want to live where they want to. That doesn't mean we
shouldn't be able to visit our own families though. Moron.

b) The INS is so spotty. Why should someone applying to one INS office that processes
applications quickly be "allowed" to see their families sooner than people
applying to a slower office. Doofus.

c) Some of us have jobs that require travel abroad occasionally. Why should we have
to put our jobs (and therefore family livelyhood) at jeopardy? Retard.

Just because you have no love for your family and your wife doesn't mean the rest
of us don't.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 1:10 pm
  #39  
Michael D. Young
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Default Re: Culture shock?

pussycat wrote:

    > Pretty much, by the tone of your last post. "Don't let the statue of liberty hit
    > you in the ass on the way out" isn't precicely what I'd call welcoming. But maybe
    > I'm just being oversensitive. Who knows, perhaps where you come from that's some
    > sort of greeting.

That was for the people that didn't think the U.S. is as nice as where they come from
ot don't want to become a citizen.

    > I am a patriotic woman. I love my country and even if I sometimes privately think
    > it's the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD I wouldn't insult every other nation by saying
    > it in public because what's the best to me, might not be so to someone else. The
    > word "best" means that all else are inferior and can, at best, only achieve runner
    > up status. "Best" is a quantifiable adjective. You can be the "best" at a sport if
    > you win a competition. Has there been some sort of national competition and the
    > rest of the world wasn't informed? Who where the panel of judges? On what date
    > were you awarded the title of "best"? Or - shock, horror - could this be just your
    > *personal* opinion? (Do you know what that means, I wonder?)

I don't work for the U.N. so no need to be PC. The line to get in is pretty long,
so I would say that would make it the unofficial best.

    > So, fine. Let's play this game. What makes your country the "best", then?
    > Achievements? Yea...America has had some fine achievements. So has Scotland and
    > Britain. In fact, it was Scotsmen who invented the telephone, the surfaces you
    > drive on, the pneumatic tyres which go on the Scots invented surfaces. It was a
    > Scotsman who discovered penicillin. It was a Brit who invented television -
    > although maybe that's not such a great invention. It seems to be the primary
    > source of education for some of the more ignorant masses who like to lisp
    > propoganda to the rest of the world with neither fear nor favour.

Yeah and if it wasn't for the U.S. they would all be speaking German right now.

    > Where would *your* nation be without these things?

Well most of the people to started this country come from the U.K. but they put
an end to that and the ones that wanted to remain British left. Should still
be the same.

    > Now, doesn't this all sound rather childish? Yes, it does. But then, I'm playing
    > *your* game, lowering my standards and communicating with you at *your* level.

No, that's your opinion. I just don't agree.

    > America is a great country - undoubtedly. But so are many others throughout the
    > world and to question someone's loyalty and patriotism is more than just
    > arrogance in the extreme but politeness forbids me to tell you just what it is in
    > a public forum.
    > Again your opinion. One I don't share.
    > My loyalty lies with those who've earned it. I don't give my alliegiance freely.
    > If I remain in another country for a period of time and feel that it's earned it,
    > fine. That does not mean, however, that I'll relinquish my past, my identity or my
    > original national loyalties. Even if I *did* become a US citizen (by CHOICE rather
    > than as a REQUIREMENT), I'd always be British, always be Scottish and always loyal
    > to those nations. In other words, if the dual citizenship right was ever dissolved,
    > I'd keep my red passport, thanks very much. I see no harm in becoming an American
    > citizen, it may even be beneficial, especially if I were to make it my permanent
    > home - but I'd be a dual citizen. American AND British. And both would have my
    > loyalties. Not just one. Both.

Well you moved here, so you owe the U.S. something and I think the minium requirement
is to become a citizen.

    > Your country may be great but so is mine and always will be. As I said previously,
    > I am happy to integrate with American culture, keep the laws of the land etc.
    > Don't mistake me as someone "fleeing" from oppression to the land of the free. I
    > am planning emigration not to go to your "best" country but because that's where my
    > husband comes from. I am going because of loyalty to him. Not to your country,
    > not to my country. I would happily remain where I am if it weren't for him. I am
    > sure I'll find things in your country just as good as I have here - different
    > maybe, but just as good. I respect people from all nations - and (DO try to
    > understand this concept. Thinking is so important...) I expect the same in return.
    > If I don't get it, then I form opinions of the citizens of that country and, if it
    > weren't for the fact that I have some good friends in the States, I'd begin to
    > think that, if you are an ambassador for your great nation, the US might be
    > somewhere to avoid rather than to look forward to.

I'm not the ambassador or welcome wagon for the U.S., just stating my opinions and
I'm sure if you took a poll it would be one most Americans agree with. Don't want to
be a citizen, we don't need you.

Take care,

Mike
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 1:24 pm
  #40  
Des
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Default Re: Culture shock?

""DJ"! Upon reading the words "Tulsa, Oklahoma" I had to write... that's the birth
city of my loving husband. Our new home is now in Arkansas...

- Des
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 1:25 pm
  #41  
Michael D. Young
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Andy Platt wrote:

    > "Michael D. Young" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > It's bizarre. On most issues, you write intelligently, coherently and with logic.
    > On this issue you have your head stuck up your arse and can't see the daylight for
    > all the shit that's there. I don't usually personalize issues but in this case you
    > are the only idiot propagating your (and I repeat what I've said before) xenophobic
    > attitudes here who should have enough intelligence not to. I'll litter this
    > response with a few childish insults just to descend to your intellectual level *on
    > this issue*.

I think I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are. You don't agree, fine. Don't
think I'm xenophobic, I did marry someone from another country and has a child to
boot and we are doing just fine.

    > You seem to think that US citizens marrying foreigners need to have extra obstacles
    > put in their way just to test them. Perhaps you think you are designing some sort
    > of reality TV show? There are so many reasons why saying "you have to stay here
    > until you are a permanent resident" is a completely retarded concept, I wonder why
    > I'm descending to your level on this issue and responding but I feel I have to so
    > I'll list three:
    > a) Once again, many of us would prefer to live in our home countries and for their
    > spouses to move there with them. But some of us have more respect for our
    > spouses than you obviously do and want to live where they want to. That doesn't
    > mean we shouldn't be able to visit our own families though. Moron.

I may be a moron, but the fact remains you are living here, so just become a citizen.

    > b) The INS is so spotty. Why should someone applying to one INS office that
    > processes applications quickly be "allowed" to see their families sooner than
    > people applying to a slower office. Doofus.

Well once you all become citizens, you can call your congressman and complain. Then
vote for someone else if you are not happy.

    > c) Some of us have jobs that require travel abroad occasionally. Why should we have
    > to put our jobs (and therefore family livelyhood) at jeopardy? Retard.

OK this could be an exception, just as with people that are married to people in the
military. This policy is just in the draft stage.

    > Just because you have no love for your family and your wife doesn't mean the rest
    > of us don't.

I love my wife, but one of the thing I said right from the start is are you sure you
want to move here, because I'm not coming there.


Take care,

Moron, Retarded, Doffs, Mike LOL
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 1:25 pm
  #42  
Michael D. Young
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Default Re: Culture shock?

Andy Platt wrote:

    > "Michael D. Young" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > It's bizarre. On most issues, you write intelligently, coherently and with logic.
    > On this issue you have your head stuck up your arse and can't see the daylight for
    > all the shit that's there. I don't usually personalize issues but in this case you
    > are the only idiot propagating your (and I repeat what I've said before) xenophobic
    > attitudes here who should have enough intelligence not to. I'll litter this
    > response with a few childish insults just to descend to your intellectual level *on
    > this issue*.

I think I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are. You don't agree, fine. Don't
think I'm xenophobic, I did marry someone from another country and has a child to
boot and we are doing just fine.

    > You seem to think that US citizens marrying foreigners need to have extra obstacles
    > put in their way just to test them. Perhaps you think you are designing some sort
    > of reality TV show? There are so many reasons why saying "you have to stay here
    > until you are a permanent resident" is a completely retarded concept, I wonder why
    > I'm descending to your level on this issue and responding but I feel I have to so
    > I'll list three:
    > a) Once again, many of us would prefer to live in our home countries and for their
    > spouses to move there with them. But some of us have more respect for our
    > spouses than you obviously do and want to live where they want to. That doesn't
    > mean we shouldn't be able to visit our own families though. Moron.

I may be a moron, but the fact remains you are living here, so just become a citizen.

    > b) The INS is so spotty. Why should someone applying to one INS office that
    > processes applications quickly be "allowed" to see their families sooner than
    > people applying to a slower office. Doofus.

Well once you all become citizens, you can call your congressman and complain. Then
vote for someone else if you are not happy.

    > c) Some of us have jobs that require travel abroad occasionally. Why should we have
    > to put our jobs (and therefore family livelyhood) at jeopardy? Retard.

OK this could be an exception, just as with people that are married to people in the
military. This policy is just in the draft stage.

    > Just because you have no love for your family and your wife doesn't mean the rest
    > of us don't.

I love my wife, but one of the thing I said right from the start is are you sure you
want to move here, because I'm not coming there.


Take care,

Moron, Retarded, Doofus, Mike LOL
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 1:52 pm
  #43  
Paulgani
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Default Re: Culture shock?

"Michael D. Young" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I may be a moron, but the fact remains you are living here, so just become
a
    > citizen.

As a fellow USC, I protest. Why are you trying to dilute my power and benefits?

I *like* the fact that I don't have to compete with foreigners for most government
jobs. I'm thrilled that they are ineligible for lots of social benefits. Also that
they pay huge inheritance taxes when their USC spouse dies. If they commit any
serious crime, we get to kick their asses out the country! And hey, my vote rules
over them - they can complain about the U.S. government all they want, but they don't
have the power to make changes, like us. WE rule over THEM.

As a USC, I'm thrilled that we have a large underclass which essentially has no
voice, fewer rights, and fewer privledges, but has to dish out the same, or even
higher taxes than we do.

Let's make sure we keep our advantage!

Paulgani
 
Old Aug 9th 2002, 1:56 pm
  #44  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: MA via London
Posts: 134
Rob S is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Mike
Your myopic view of world affairs is matched in its ignorance by your limited grasp of european history. I dare say the people of the Phillipines will miss you dearly.

However I comfort myself with the knowledge that none of the many Americans I know are like you.

What I don't get is your obsession with citizenship? When I am in the states I am subject to all the laws you are - and then some. I have no problem with this. Whether I ever become a USC is another matter, I simply haven't decided yet and couldn't anyway for some time to come. What I am certain of is that I wouldn't want to lose my British citizenship any time soon, nothing sentimental but a european passport is far more useful than an American one and with the Commonwealth, British passports have other advantages.

My children will have both, hopefully giving them greater freedom to travel and work - if they choose to.

None of this affects what I like or dislike about America or anywhere else.

Beyond that I will always be a Yorkshireman, English, British and European - in the future I might become American - but above all I'll be me, an individual shaped by his life experiences, friends and family.


As to America being the best or greatest - that is a matter of opinion. In my experience those who shout loudest about their particular patch of turf being the best are usually the least convincing - the Taliban and their idea of an islamic paradise come to mind - Now, you are in good company aren't you.

Rob
Rob S is offline  
Old Aug 9th 2002, 2:02 pm
  #45  
M1nn0w
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Default Re: Culture shock?

Mike, At some point during this thread you stated that you were
only voicing your opinion. You then went on to say that if a poll were taken your
opinion would be the same as the majority of Americans. Now I know that some of the
folks who have responded to your post are not "Americans" I am and I disagree with
your opinion. If we look back over the thread and gather the opinions of other
Americans who have responded we would find that your opinion is certainly not shared
by the majority. In fact it appears that you are totally in the minority. In fact I
think that point is unanimous. If we use this thread as a basis of opinion and
extrapolate that to the rest of the American people I believe you will find that you
are clearly mistaken. Pull your head out and look around once in awhile. Not everyone
is Mike. And though Mike might be a wonderful, exciting, intelligent creature to
Mike, not everyone wants to be like Mike despite the advertisements.

John & Deb Can/Am '98
 

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