Culture shock?
Aug 12th 2002, 6:03 pm
#166
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Culture shock?
On Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:47:00 -0400, L D Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
>Alex Wilson wrote:
>[ ... ]
>> the funniest thing to me is, that all you "natural citizens" are basically born of
>> immigrants in the first place, you can slag off the other 3rd world foreigners all
>> you want, but until you talk to me in cherokee, navajo or a similar native tongue
>> to the americas you can shut the **** up!
>However, plenty of this slagging off occurs in other places too, like the UK
One thing that made me laugh recently was the tagline of a poster in another
group I read ;-
America has always had problems with illegal immigrants - Ask any Indian!
Denis
>Alex Wilson wrote:
>[ ... ]
>> the funniest thing to me is, that all you "natural citizens" are basically born of
>> immigrants in the first place, you can slag off the other 3rd world foreigners all
>> you want, but until you talk to me in cherokee, navajo or a similar native tongue
>> to the americas you can shut the **** up!
>However, plenty of this slagging off occurs in other places too, like the UK
One thing that made me laugh recently was the tagline of a poster in another
group I read ;-
America has always had problems with illegal immigrants - Ask any Indian!
Denis
Aug 12th 2002, 9:20 pm
#167
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Culture shock?
Hey, don't apologise to me - I didn't write the post. 
But I understand how - well - annoyed a comment like the "underclass" one can make
you. I know I just about choked over my cuppa when I read it. Still, there's always
one gobshite in the bunch.
Cheers, -- cat
"GentleDoe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I am sorry and my apologies.. I wasn't post to him... you know who I refer to..
> "pussycat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > He was being sarcastic and referring to a previous poster who referred
to
> > all non citizens as an "underclass". Steve is one of USC's on the
"side"
> of
> > the foreigners and resents the way other USC's negate them.
> >
> > This isn't the sort of thread you can just pick bits out of otherwise
> you're
> > bound to make little mistakes like this - you have to read it all.
Sadly.
> > But I wouldn't recommend it.
> >
> > -- cat
> >
> >
> > "GentleDoe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > Underclass?? Youw wife might ne under your class and its her choice..
> > > Foreigners are not underclass as you say..
> > >
> > >
> > > "Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > "Quinkman" <[email protected]> wrote in message [url="news:20020811003105.085-[/q3]
[q3]> > > > [email protected]"]news:[email protected][-
> > > > /url]...
> > > > > << Subject: Re: Culture shock? From: "Michael D. Young" [email protected]
> > > > > Date: Sat, Aug 10, 2002 9:16 PM Message-id: <[email protected]>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > << Yes an as of 08/08/2002 she is a conditional permanent
resident
> > > alien,
> > > > who
> > > > > intends to become a U.S. citizen. Who doesn't whine everyday she
> > misses
> > > > > home and back home things were better. She is very happy here
with
> me
> > > and
> > > > > doesn't intend to ever go back.
> > > > >
> > > > > Take care,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > now she's a true American, thank you Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > PS: they don't get it
> > > >
> > > > No she isn't. She's a conditional permanent resident. She isn't a
> > > citizen.
> > > > She isn't an American. She's part of the foreign underclass. Apply
> > your
> > > > standards evenly.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
But I understand how - well - annoyed a comment like the "underclass" one can make
you. I know I just about choked over my cuppa when I read it. Still, there's always
one gobshite in the bunch.
Cheers, -- cat
"GentleDoe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I am sorry and my apologies.. I wasn't post to him... you know who I refer to..
> "pussycat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > He was being sarcastic and referring to a previous poster who referred
to
> > all non citizens as an "underclass". Steve is one of USC's on the
"side"
> of
> > the foreigners and resents the way other USC's negate them.
> >
> > This isn't the sort of thread you can just pick bits out of otherwise
> you're
> > bound to make little mistakes like this - you have to read it all.
Sadly.
> > But I wouldn't recommend it.
> >
> > -- cat
> >
> >
> > "GentleDoe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > Underclass?? Youw wife might ne under your class and its her choice..
> > > Foreigners are not underclass as you say..
> > >
> > >
> > > "Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > "Quinkman" <[email protected]> wrote in message [url="news:20020811003105.085-[/q3]
[q3]> > > > [email protected]"]news:[email protected][-
> > > > /url]...
> > > > > << Subject: Re: Culture shock? From: "Michael D. Young" [email protected]
> > > > > Date: Sat, Aug 10, 2002 9:16 PM Message-id: <[email protected]>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > << Yes an as of 08/08/2002 she is a conditional permanent
resident
> > > alien,
> > > > who
> > > > > intends to become a U.S. citizen. Who doesn't whine everyday she
> > misses
> > > > > home and back home things were better. She is very happy here
with
> me
> > > and
> > > > > doesn't intend to ever go back.
> > > > >
> > > > > Take care,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > now she's a true American, thank you Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > PS: they don't get it
> > > >
> > > > No she isn't. She's a conditional permanent resident. She isn't a
> > > citizen.
> > > > She isn't an American. She's part of the foreign underclass. Apply
> > your
> > > > standards evenly.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
Aug 13th 2002, 1:16 pm
#168
Guest
Posts: n/a
Culture shock?
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Matta,
Here! Here!
George
Matta Harri wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "pussycat"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > For what it's worth, I think America is a beautiful country in many places and
> > has a lot of interesting things to offer. No, it'll never be home, so I suppose
> > I'll be like one of the old fashioned immigrants and try to make out of it what I
> > can without losing my roots, but it will be an adventure and that's a good thing.
> > Adventures stop you getting stale. And I'm sure that in time it can become the
> > next best thing to home. It will be easier for me because I've met most of my
> > husbands close friends and they've become my friends too, so there's something to
> > start off with, something to make it feel more "homey", having people you know
> > and feel comfortable with around you.
> Rules for living in the US (tongue in cheek, dearie):
> 1. don't say nuthin' bad about god unless you are cussin', in which case they will
> usually forgive you if your face gets red enough.
> 2. don't say nuthin' bad about the flag noway never, people got a real thing about
> that. Of course, you can desecrate old glory by putting it on your car, your
> house, your walls, your clothing, the roof of your barn, and everyone will
> admire your timely and tasteful decorating, especially if you have matching flag
> dishware, silverware, and pots/pans.
> 3. don't expect anyone to accept you without a "trial by fire." People like to see
> what you are made of, and they put you through the old ringer to find out. Once
> you pass that test, you are getting closer to being one of the normal rednecks
> that we have so many of.
> 4. criticize the new immigrant population every chance you get, especially when it
> comes to "stealing" american jobs, and especially if they happen to be mexican.
> Everyone loves to hate mexicans in most places. No one seems to consider that
> they do the jobs that no one else will do, and often do it better and cheaper.
> 5. don't say nuthin' bad about the president unless you are in a batch of liberals,
> the repugs tend to take that very seriously right now.
> 6. Always remember: the US won WWII, and saved the entire world!!!
> 7. Remember that It was ok to bomb Japan with the atomic bomb, because they crapped
> on us at Pearl Harbor. It makes no difference that they had death, disease,
> destruction, and genetic defects. They deserved what they got. (don't remind
> anyone they got us back 3 times over with their cars, VCR's, TV's, Radios, and
> such)
> 8. Always know that We could have won in vietnam if only they had allowed our boys
> to fight and tried harder. It was the problem of the leadership, not the
> soldiers.
> matta
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Matta,
Here! Here!
George
Matta Harri wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "pussycat"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > For what it's worth, I think America is a beautiful country in many places and
> > has a lot of interesting things to offer. No, it'll never be home, so I suppose
> > I'll be like one of the old fashioned immigrants and try to make out of it what I
> > can without losing my roots, but it will be an adventure and that's a good thing.
> > Adventures stop you getting stale. And I'm sure that in time it can become the
> > next best thing to home. It will be easier for me because I've met most of my
> > husbands close friends and they've become my friends too, so there's something to
> > start off with, something to make it feel more "homey", having people you know
> > and feel comfortable with around you.
> Rules for living in the US (tongue in cheek, dearie):
> 1. don't say nuthin' bad about god unless you are cussin', in which case they will
> usually forgive you if your face gets red enough.
> 2. don't say nuthin' bad about the flag noway never, people got a real thing about
> that. Of course, you can desecrate old glory by putting it on your car, your
> house, your walls, your clothing, the roof of your barn, and everyone will
> admire your timely and tasteful decorating, especially if you have matching flag
> dishware, silverware, and pots/pans.
> 3. don't expect anyone to accept you without a "trial by fire." People like to see
> what you are made of, and they put you through the old ringer to find out. Once
> you pass that test, you are getting closer to being one of the normal rednecks
> that we have so many of.
> 4. criticize the new immigrant population every chance you get, especially when it
> comes to "stealing" american jobs, and especially if they happen to be mexican.
> Everyone loves to hate mexicans in most places. No one seems to consider that
> they do the jobs that no one else will do, and often do it better and cheaper.
> 5. don't say nuthin' bad about the president unless you are in a batch of liberals,
> the repugs tend to take that very seriously right now.
> 6. Always remember: the US won WWII, and saved the entire world!!!
> 7. Remember that It was ok to bomb Japan with the atomic bomb, because they crapped
> on us at Pearl Harbor. It makes no difference that they had death, disease,
> destruction, and genetic defects. They deserved what they got. (don't remind
> anyone they got us back 3 times over with their cars, VCR's, TV's, Radios, and
> such)
> 8. Always know that We could have won in vietnam if only they had allowed our boys
> to fight and tried harder. It was the problem of the leadership, not the
> soldiers.
> matta
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--------------0C101FEF4696FCBA117BA245--
Aug 13th 2002, 4:37 pm
#169
Guest
Posts: n/a
Culture shock?
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2286878A78BFDA1B7FEED092
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Shannon,
Within days of her arrival, my wife plainly stated that she did not want to
become a US citizen. Her choice. It didn't need to be explained or
defended. Citizenship isn't necessary. We are happy notheless. On the
other hand, she was so fearful and depressed after her arrival that she
refused to leave the house for days. Fortunately, it was Spring and with
Summer's approach we could spend time on the beach, her most favored past
time. The tides and ocean spray seemed to wash away her fears. I am most
uncomfortable with the jingoism and self-stimulation of American patirotism,
especially since 911. In the main, patriotism has always been fertile soil
for scoundrals (remember a significant number of our 'founding fathers' were
wastrels whose opposition to British rule was monetary first, then
ideological). With increasing alarm, I've watched as patriotism is employed
to prop a sagging, aimless government and its leader. It will soon become, I
believe, a litmus test by the forces of the homeland security (read: HUAC) to
separate those who live normal lives and those who are hounded and harassed,
regardless of their citizneship. If I may, I suggest we be wary of all
those, foreign or not, who promulgate immature perspectives as a means test
for acceptance. Regarding 'Black Hawk Down,' the PBS documentary made it
clear that American soldiers are good at fighting where they have a clear
technological superiority. And because of that bias, they went into a
dangerous situation without real plans. They also went into a hostile
section of the city, where every window had a gun barrel pointing at them,
without proper reconnaissance. Also, implicit in the documentary was the
idea that American soldiers should not die. No one likes to die prematurely.
But being a soldier is predicated on the high probability risk of dying. One
need only read historical accounts of the First World War to get that
picture. No one likes to see a dead soldier being mutilated and dragged
around city streets. We personalize the experience, I did, and our outrage
is unquenchable, mine was. Yet, there was also a soldier who was 'saved' by
Somalies, who was later 'rescued' by the intervention of a Somali diplomat.
But I wonder, did Somalies see themsleves as defending their 'turf,'
regardless of whether it was, is, and may be for the foreseeable future, a
war torn domaine of brutal warlords and do-nothing officials benefiting from
the country's poverty?
George
Shannon wrote:
> Originally posted by ms_bhon:
> > NC-
> " Shannon was shaken by the opinions and one sidedness of the people she was
> hanging with... my solution- find some friends she has more in common with.
> I agree, absolutely. I think the fact that I moved quickly and easily into a
> like-minded community in Australia was why I felt so "at home". In Indonesia I
> anticipated the cultural differences so was far more accomodating - it was a remote
> village without electricity so you couldn't really expect the home comforts. At
> first
> I guess the US suprised me because I had expected a similarly easy "integration" -
> meaning I expected to find friends and common ground. By chance or culture or
> whatever mix of the two its been a bit harder than expected. Still, I've only been
> in Seattle 18 months so its early days.
> Shannon
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
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Shannon,
Within days of her arrival, my wife plainly stated that she did not want to
become a US citizen. Her choice. It didn't need to be explained or
defended. Citizenship isn't necessary. We are happy notheless. On the
other hand, she was so fearful and depressed after her arrival that she
refused to leave the house for days. Fortunately, it was Spring and with
Summer's approach we could spend time on the beach, her most favored past
time. The tides and ocean spray seemed to wash away her fears. I am most
uncomfortable with the jingoism and self-stimulation of American patirotism,
especially since 911. In the main, patriotism has always been fertile soil
for scoundrals (remember a significant number of our 'founding fathers' were
wastrels whose opposition to British rule was monetary first, then
ideological). With increasing alarm, I've watched as patriotism is employed
to prop a sagging, aimless government and its leader. It will soon become, I
believe, a litmus test by the forces of the homeland security (read: HUAC) to
separate those who live normal lives and those who are hounded and harassed,
regardless of their citizneship. If I may, I suggest we be wary of all
those, foreign or not, who promulgate immature perspectives as a means test
for acceptance. Regarding 'Black Hawk Down,' the PBS documentary made it
clear that American soldiers are good at fighting where they have a clear
technological superiority. And because of that bias, they went into a
dangerous situation without real plans. They also went into a hostile
section of the city, where every window had a gun barrel pointing at them,
without proper reconnaissance. Also, implicit in the documentary was the
idea that American soldiers should not die. No one likes to die prematurely.
But being a soldier is predicated on the high probability risk of dying. One
need only read historical accounts of the First World War to get that
picture. No one likes to see a dead soldier being mutilated and dragged
around city streets. We personalize the experience, I did, and our outrage
is unquenchable, mine was. Yet, there was also a soldier who was 'saved' by
Somalies, who was later 'rescued' by the intervention of a Somali diplomat.
But I wonder, did Somalies see themsleves as defending their 'turf,'
regardless of whether it was, is, and may be for the foreseeable future, a
war torn domaine of brutal warlords and do-nothing officials benefiting from
the country's poverty?
George
Shannon wrote:
> Originally posted by ms_bhon:
> > NC-
> " Shannon was shaken by the opinions and one sidedness of the people she was
> hanging with... my solution- find some friends she has more in common with.
> I agree, absolutely. I think the fact that I moved quickly and easily into a
> like-minded community in Australia was why I felt so "at home". In Indonesia I
> anticipated the cultural differences so was far more accomodating - it was a remote
> village without electricity so you couldn't really expect the home comforts. At
> first
> I guess the US suprised me because I had expected a similarly easy "integration" -
> meaning I expected to find friends and common ground. By chance or culture or
> whatever mix of the two its been a bit harder than expected. Still, I've only been
> in Seattle 18 months so its early days.
> Shannon
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
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name="george.charpied.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card
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begin:vcard
n:Charpied;George L. tel;pager:617-638-5795 Id. no. 1586 tel;fax:617-638-6424
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--------------2286878A78BFDA1B7FEED092--
Aug 13th 2002, 6:37 pm
#170
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: San Jose, CA USA
Posts: 123
Re: Culture shock?
My wife and I havent talked about it too much. But I would like her to become a citizen eventually for the legal protection. There are so many laws that can accidentally be broken (one beer too many, etc - just an example!!!) which can result in deportation that I would like her to at least give it a shot. She will always be a citizen of her home country, so why not.
