Originally Posted by zargof (Post 10687123)

You are Richard Dawkins, and I claim my five pounds.

Originally Posted by Wolverine75 (Post 10684053)

- And yet, tens of tousands, even hundreds of thousands, of foreigners every year still flock to attend American colleges and universities. Not something you care to mention, is it?

Originally Posted by Steve_ (Post 10683938)

Well everything like this is a generalization, but the fact so many of us have noticed it means it is somewhat prevalent.

Another point made to me various times by various people is that many Americans actually truly believe the stereotype that America is the best country in the world, so by definition they think what they are doing must be the best way to do it.

I always think Dick Cheney is an example of this mindset because of the war in Iraq: we're America, we're better than you, ergo we know better than you and we must be right.

But this is also the mindset that leads to various terrorist groups hating America, they sit and watch American TV and listen to all this "America is the best" claptrap too but to them it is offensive because their culture is so different.

But anyway if you think you are the best, what motivation is there to change?

For example I was watching CNN yesterday and they were explaining how this terrorist in Boston would get a lawyer free of charge, an example of what makes America great, but they probably won't get him out of the death penalty.

So to an American that statement makes perfect sense, but as a foreigner watching it, I think, well most countries give free representation to the defendant and in most other countries there is no death penalty, so it wouldn't even be an issue...

Americans just seem to laugh off things like international comparisons of education that show the US is lowly ranked, or infant mortality, etc. It's like they don't quite believe it. Or if they do believe it, they justify it to themselves by saying, well that's only in Mississippi or some other place where they don't live.

Originally Posted by yellowroom (Post 10686906)

tbh, this post comes across as both defensive and aggressive. It is symptomatic of the attitudes I've encountered when dealing with issues like those described by the OP. QED really.

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 10687099)

Critical thinking does take place here, of course it does - by virtue of the law of averages but when you look at the number of christians running around, it's hard to believe critical thinking exists here at all.

Oh, before you get all up in arms and offended - that isn't a generalisation. Blind faith in fairy tales is a textbook example of a lack of critical thinking. Deal with it.

Originally Posted by dlake02 (Post 10687246)

As to the comment about "tens of thousands want to move here" - PLEASE. Net migration US/Mexico has gone into reverse as Mexico has improved it's economy. Europeans aren't coming here in anything like sustainable numbers. Migration here is predominantly from 2nd and 3rd World countries such as India and China.

Originally Posted by dlake02 (Post 10687257)

Oh yes - I find that really, really odd. Here I am in Silicon Valley, less than a mile from the Golden State Baptist Church College that has a "scientific" class in Creationism that is supported by the State and the City of San Jose !!!!

If any area in the world should prove that it's all bunkum, it is here ! Yet I have SVPs telling me how they have been "saved !" First time it happened, I did what I'd have done in London - move politely away from the weirdo in the corner.

Europe is nearly 100% secular these days and a much better place for it. Far from Silicon Valley following suit, it appears to be getting more religious.

And because the State cannot be ar*ed to provide anything like decent public services, often times it is the religious organisations that step in to "help" with their ulterior motives of getting converts on-board.

Originally Posted by jeffreyhy (Post 10687259)

So the comment is true, then - tens of thousands do want to move to the USA. The backlog in the family-based preference categories tends to support the statement.

Where the immigrants are coming from is a different issue from are there people who want to immigrate. Related, but different.

Regards, JEff

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 10687263)

The US used to be secular (or at least, more secular). It was founded by secularists, for example.

Most of the god crap we see today came about in the late 1950s due to fear of communism. I have a $20.00 bill at home from 1950 - the words 'in god we trust' are nowhere to be seen. Likewise, there's a photo of a plaque of the Pledge of Allegiance from the 50s, that doesn't have 'under god' in it as well.

Originally Posted by dlake02 (Post 10687277)

Interestingly, I remember coming here 15-20 years ago and not noticing that it was overly religious. I suspect that with the influx of immigrants from poorer countries that tend to be more religious that has had an impact.

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 10687263)

I have a $20.00 bill at home from 1950 - the words 'in god we trust' are nowhere to be seen.

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 10687263)

Likewise, there's a photo of a plaque of the Pledge of Allegiance from the 50s, that doesn't have 'under god' in it as well.

Originally Posted by jeffreyhy (Post 10687284)

Replaced "e pluribus unum" in 1956. But has been used on coinage since 1864.

First proposed circa 1948, used in the pledge by various proponents until formally added by an act of Congress in 1954.

Regards, JEff

Originally Posted by dlake02 (Post 10687277)

Interestingly, I remember coming here 15-20 years ago and not noticing that it was overly religious. I suspect that with the influx of immigrants from poorer countries that tend to be more religious that has had an impact.

Originally Posted by dlake02 (Post 10687277)

I suspect that with the influx of immigrants from poorer countries that tend to be more religious that has had an impact.

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 10687287)

Immigrants tend to have little influence, the rise of religion is from the late 70's and Jerry Falwell and the like encouraging the religious to become involved in politics.