Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
#46
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#47
Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
(As an aside, it is a largely stuff I already know, but I have to do pre-requisites, and the matching up of course for course from transcripts does not always pay you for what you know. I hope to be back to full time employment by the time I get around to new learning.)
#48
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Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
Well everything like this is a generalization, but the fact so many of us have noticed it means it is somewhat prevalent.
Another point made to me various times by various people is that many Americans actually truly believe the stereotype that America is the best country in the world, so by definition they think what they are doing must be the best way to do it.
I always think Dick Cheney is an example of this mindset because of the war in Iraq: we're America, we're better than you, ergo we know better than you and we must be right.
But this is also the mindset that leads to various terrorist groups hating America, they sit and watch American TV and listen to all this "America is the best" claptrap too but to them it is offensive because their culture is so different.
But anyway if you think you are the best, what motivation is there to change?
For example I was watching CNN yesterday and they were explaining how this terrorist in Boston would get a lawyer free of charge, an example of what makes America great, but they probably won't get him out of the death penalty.
So to an American that statement makes perfect sense, but as a foreigner watching it, I think, well most countries give free representation to the defendant and in most other countries there is no death penalty, so it wouldn't even be an issue...
Americans just seem to laugh off things like international comparisons of education that show the US is lowly ranked, or infant mortality, etc. It's like they don't quite believe it. Or if they do believe it, they justify it to themselves by saying, well that's only in Mississippi or some other place where they don't live.
Another point made to me various times by various people is that many Americans actually truly believe the stereotype that America is the best country in the world, so by definition they think what they are doing must be the best way to do it.
I always think Dick Cheney is an example of this mindset because of the war in Iraq: we're America, we're better than you, ergo we know better than you and we must be right.
But this is also the mindset that leads to various terrorist groups hating America, they sit and watch American TV and listen to all this "America is the best" claptrap too but to them it is offensive because their culture is so different.
But anyway if you think you are the best, what motivation is there to change?
For example I was watching CNN yesterday and they were explaining how this terrorist in Boston would get a lawyer free of charge, an example of what makes America great, but they probably won't get him out of the death penalty.
So to an American that statement makes perfect sense, but as a foreigner watching it, I think, well most countries give free representation to the defendant and in most other countries there is no death penalty, so it wouldn't even be an issue...
Americans just seem to laugh off things like international comparisons of education that show the US is lowly ranked, or infant mortality, etc. It's like they don't quite believe it. Or if they do believe it, they justify it to themselves by saying, well that's only in Mississippi or some other place where they don't live.
#49
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Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
To be perfectly blunt, through European eyes, America all looks a little shabby and uncared for. It looks like people built it in the 1970s and then sat-back and said "yep, we're done" and now anyone that comes in and tries to move things forward is immediately rejected as a nay-sayer.
And by built I really mean everything from social attitudes to infrastructure; the whole gammit.
I don't expect to be right anything like all-of-the-time, but I also don't expect anyone else to be right all-of-the-time.
I'd just like a little debate, discussion, humility and learning from others - both ways.
As to the comment about "tens of thousands want to move here" - PLEASE. Net migration US/Mexico has gone into reverse as Mexico has improved it's economy. Europeans aren't coming here in anything like sustainable numbers. Migration here is predominantly from 2nd and 3rd World countries such as India and China.
#50
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Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
Critical thinking does take place here, of course it does - by virtue of the law of averages but when you look at the number of christians running around, it's hard to believe critical thinking exists here at all.
Oh, before you get all up in arms and offended - that isn't a generalisation. Blind faith in fairy tales is a textbook example of a lack of critical thinking. Deal with it.
Oh, before you get all up in arms and offended - that isn't a generalisation. Blind faith in fairy tales is a textbook example of a lack of critical thinking. Deal with it.
If any area in the world should prove that it's all bunkum, it is here ! Yet I have SVPs telling me how they have been "saved !" First time it happened, I did what I'd have done in London - move politely away from the weirdo in the corner.
Europe is nearly 100% secular these days and a much better place for it. Far from Silicon Valley following suit, it appears to be getting more religious.
And because the State cannot be ar*ed to provide anything like decent public services, often times it is the religious organisations that step in to "help" with their ulterior motives of getting converts on-board.
#51
Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
So the comment is true, then - tens of thousands do want to move to the USA. The backlog in the family-based preference categories tends to support the statement.
Where the immigrants are coming from is a different issue from are there people who want to immigrate. Related, but different.
Regards, JEff
Where the immigrants are coming from is a different issue from are there people who want to immigrate. Related, but different.
Regards, JEff
As to the comment about "tens of thousands want to move here" - PLEASE. Net migration US/Mexico has gone into reverse as Mexico has improved it's economy. Europeans aren't coming here in anything like sustainable numbers. Migration here is predominantly from 2nd and 3rd World countries such as India and China.
#52
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Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
Oh yes - I find that really, really odd. Here I am in Silicon Valley, less than a mile from the Golden State Baptist Church College that has a "scientific" class in Creationism that is supported by the State and the City of San Jose !!!!
If any area in the world should prove that it's all bunkum, it is here ! Yet I have SVPs telling me how they have been "saved !" First time it happened, I did what I'd have done in London - move politely away from the weirdo in the corner.
Europe is nearly 100% secular these days and a much better place for it. Far from Silicon Valley following suit, it appears to be getting more religious.
And because the State cannot be ar*ed to provide anything like decent public services, often times it is the religious organisations that step in to "help" with their ulterior motives of getting converts on-board.
If any area in the world should prove that it's all bunkum, it is here ! Yet I have SVPs telling me how they have been "saved !" First time it happened, I did what I'd have done in London - move politely away from the weirdo in the corner.
Europe is nearly 100% secular these days and a much better place for it. Far from Silicon Valley following suit, it appears to be getting more religious.
And because the State cannot be ar*ed to provide anything like decent public services, often times it is the religious organisations that step in to "help" with their ulterior motives of getting converts on-board.
Most of the god crap we see today came about in the late 1950s due to fear of communism. I have a $20.00 bill at home from 1950 - the words 'in god we trust' are nowhere to be seen. Likewise, there's a photo of a plaque of the Pledge of Allegiance from the 50s, that doesn't have 'under god' in it as well.
#53
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Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
So the comment is true, then - tens of thousands do want to move to the USA. The backlog in the family-based preference categories tends to support the statement.
Where the immigrants are coming from is a different issue from are there people who want to immigrate. Related, but different.
Regards, JEff
Where the immigrants are coming from is a different issue from are there people who want to immigrate. Related, but different.
Regards, JEff
But, this does NOT make the US "the best country in the world." It just makes it at least slightly better than India or China; hardly benchmark countries.
It DOES matter where they are coming from - if the US was attracting those "tens of thousands" from the UK or Germany, then yes, I would agree that the US was highly attractive and advanced.
#54
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Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
The US used to be secular (or at least, more secular). It was founded by secularists, for example.
Most of the god crap we see today came about in the late 1950s due to fear of communism. I have a $20.00 bill at home from 1950 - the words 'in god we trust' are nowhere to be seen. Likewise, there's a photo of a plaque of the Pledge of Allegiance from the 50s, that doesn't have 'under god' in it as well.
Most of the god crap we see today came about in the late 1950s due to fear of communism. I have a $20.00 bill at home from 1950 - the words 'in god we trust' are nowhere to be seen. Likewise, there's a photo of a plaque of the Pledge of Allegiance from the 50s, that doesn't have 'under god' in it as well.
#55
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Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
They're the same mythology - wonder if the extremists on either side will ever catch on ... ?
#56
Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
Replaced "e pluribus unum" in 1956. But has been used on coinage since 1864.
First proposed circa 1948, used in the pledge by various proponents until formally added by an act of Congress in 1954.
Regards, JEff
#57
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Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
Very disappointing, either way. "E. pluribus unum" is a much better motto and the phrase 'under god' belongs nowhere near the Pledge.
#58
Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
Immigrants tend to have little influence, the rise of religion is from the late 70's and Jerry Falwell and the like encouraging the religious to become involved in politics.
#59
Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
My sense is that the religious right tends to be anti-immigration. And that while immigrants from many places may tend to be religious, the born-again and other highly conservative Christians who are seeking to impose their religious views on the rest of us, again the religious right, are indiginous.
Regards, JEff
Regards, JEff
#60
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Re: Critical Thinking and Debate in the US
This is CALIFORNIA !!! 35 miles from San Francisco, the city of free love and open attitudes ! But that all seems in the past.... The Standford riots, Harvey Milk, etc.
"Belief" should have no part to play here - this should be about questioning and challenging... It's the core ethos of the region.
But it isn't.