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Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Old Jul 21st 2016, 8:22 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Interesting original question and I a few people have hit on a few points that I discovered in the 2+ years I have been in the US. Earnings are (relatively) higher and overall the cost of living is lower. Ok, I am in the Bay Area and in technology, so I understand I am lucky. But as a percentage of costs etc, housing is about the same though food is either better quality same price or cheaper and the same quality - so nothing new there.

But the one thing that worried (and still worries me) is the fact that you MUST factor in savings, insurance, retirement fund and so on. Again, I know I am lucky and thats fine. But I also appreciate that there are a lot of people who earn good money but just cant cover it all off. I guess a US citizen gets a bit more help, but its still a big risk overall.

I guess what I am saying is that it does feel better, I have more money and I am able to save too. But what I didnt appreciate was that I needed so many other additional costs on top. Probably need them in the UK too, but either were lower or less of an issue. I really thought I would be able to buy a couple of new cars, fancy holiday each year etc.... I cant. Not that I regret anything, but my lifestyle is better, higher and more flexible than it was in the UK.

One final comment though - house prices in the UK were what killed me. I earned a decent salary (actually, really good compared to most), but I just couldnt see how it was ever going to be possible to move up on the housing ladder. I had a nice house, but there was no way I could move (up or down). The high costs, expensive lending and so on - just madness. Ok, property prices in the US are very variable, but I simply couldnt afford to live any closer to London unless I took a massive drop down in size and location. I know that sounds terribly stuck up and self-centred, but its the issue. The US has a lot more opportunities, options and things we could do. And for that, its worth it.
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Old Jul 21st 2016, 8:28 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by off_again

One final comment though - house prices in the UK were what killed me. I earned a decent salary (actually, really good compared to most), but I just couldnt see how it was ever going to be possible to move up on the housing ladder. I had a nice house, but there was no way I could move (up or down). The high costs, expensive lending and so on - just madness. Ok, property prices in the US are very variable, but I simply couldnt afford to live any closer to London unless I took a massive drop down in size and location. I know that sounds terribly stuck up and self-centred, but its the issue. The US has a lot more opportunities, options and things we could do. And for that, its worth it.
One nice thing is that you can get a 30 year fixed rate mortgage in the US. In the UK you can get a sub 2% mortgage for 3 years.

I find food more expensive, $5+ for a loaf of bread is a lot in my eyes.
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 1:41 am
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by mrken30
The people that I work with do, except the ones on H1B who live on loans. I'm not sure how many people take advice from Suze Orman
Wow, I wonder who those people are. All the people that I know that are here on H1Bs all save large sums of money to send back home (to India, China, etc).

Originally Posted by Anian
I don't know if you've done the maths, but that's not much of an increase.
Indeed. Low £30K (say, £32K) is roughly $42.24K. $50K only represents an increase of 15.5%, which will easily get gobbled up by extra costs, like health premiums / deductibles, state income and/or property tax, etc.

Originally Posted by off_again
... I am in the Bay Area and in technology ... But as a percentage of costs etc, housing is about the same though food is either better quality same price or cheaper and the same quality - so nothing new there.
The Bay Area is notorious for (quite frankly) ridiculous rents. I have a friend in San Francisco that pays upwards of $1200 /month for a tiny bedroom in a shared house (and that's considered "cheap"), and a friend in Sunnyvale that said a one bedroom apartment can go for $2500+ /month.

Originally Posted by off_again
... I really thought I would be able to buy a couple of new cars, fancy holiday each year etc...
If you're wise with your money and limit your outgoings (not spending what could amount to 30 - 40% (or more) of your net pay on rent, for example), I think that this is possible, whether you live in the UK or the USA. When I lived in the UK, I was earning a pretty good salary, and I kept my rent costs down to about 15% of my net pay. This left me with plenty of money to buy a car (not that I wanted to), take holidays abroad whenever I wanted, etc.

Originally Posted by off_again
... One final comment though - house prices in the UK were what killed me. ...
If you think house prices in the UK are bad, what do you think of the prices of housing in the Bay Area? I think that it's just as bad there, if not worse. There are a few nice things about owning a home in the USA, like being able to write off mortgage interest on your income taxes. However, houses here seem to be built like they're only supposed to last for a few years. Give me a solid brick-built house any day!*


* yes, we might have an earthquake at some point, but if it's going to be a really bad earthquake, it'll likely do catastrophic damage to the house, even if it was made of wood

Last edited by cautiousjon; Jul 22nd 2016 at 1:49 am.
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 2:16 am
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by mrken30
The people that I work with do, except the ones on H1B who live on loans. I'm not sure how many people take advice from Suze Orman
My husband (originally H1B) starts to have a nervous breakdown if we have anything less than 1 yr's worth of salary in the bank...
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 7:14 am
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by Wintersong
My husband (originally H1B) starts to have a nervous breakdown if we have anything less than 1 yr's worth of salary in the bank...
When we retired we had two years worth of salary in the bank, meaning we didn't have to start pension income (etc.) for two years. The reason was simply that, in our last five or six years of work, we maxed out on 403b and Roth contributions, and additional savings piled up as after tax "short term savings." Kids had left home, mortgage was paid off, so income suddenly far exceeded outgoings.
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 8:40 am
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by cautiousjon


If you think house prices in the UK are bad, what do you think of the prices of housing in the Bay Area? I think that it's just as bad there, if not worse. There are a few nice things about owning a home in the USA, like being able to write off mortgage interest on your income taxes. However, houses here seem to be built like they're only supposed to last for a few years. Give me a solid brick-built house any day!*


* yes, we might have an earthquake at some point, but if it's going to be a really bad earthquake, it'll likely do catastrophic damage to the house, even if it was made of wood


Good point. It works out different for everyone and while off_again might be better off, I see many areas in the US that look less affordable than parts of the UK. Bay area is a good example and even highly qualified people seem to be worse off and what you get for your money is shocking.




I don't have a problem with wood homes, but just looking at the quality of the builds, you aren't really getting much for your money. I like parts of the UK and I like parts of the US, but one thing that would really put me off are all the other costs of home ownership in certain parts of the US and basically no security.


I'm no longer in the UK either, but when I look at what I have here in Europe compared to say Bay Area, the costs of property taxes & homeownership alone can buy me a solid brick home here and a higher quality Scandinavian wood holiday home in Spain + a lot more security in general, without being a highly skilled person.


I think in the US it's great when you are great and work is your life. In Europe you can still kind of manage if you aren't that great and just enjoy a simple life if that makes sense
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 6:28 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

I think in the US it's great when you are great and work is your life. In Europe you can still kind of manage if you aren't that great and just enjoy a simple life if that makes sense

That sort of nails it for me. Life in the US takes a little more work, it requires more out of you, but the rewards are also higher. (Again, VERY hard to generalize, and certainly exceptions exist in both countries.)

And yeah, it really is house prices in the UK that are the killer. I live in the SE, because that's where the job market led me, and there are very few 3-bed houses within 10 miles of me that you could buy for under £300K ($400Kish at the moment), never mind ones that you would want to live in. Compare that to the house we sold when we left IL, which went for $160K and which was really lovely in all kinds of ways. (I know that's an extreme example...)

I dunno. I guess I'm just tired of feeling squeezed all the time.

All that said, Trump scares the shit out of me.
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 6:32 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

To sum up, it looks like in the UK I could just about earn £30K/yr (before tax) and spend £300K+ on a house. In the parts of the US that appeal to me, I could earn over $50K/yr (before tax) and spend $250K on a house. I feel like over the years that difference adds up.
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 6:38 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by transatlantic_chap
.... All that said, Trump scares the shit out of me.
I think he will be very positive for America - the American economy has been stagnant or in recession for the past 25 years. It's time to shake things up a bit, and set some new priorities.
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 7:18 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by transatlantic_chap
I think in the US it's great when you are great and work is your life. In Europe you can still kind of manage if you aren't that great and just enjoy a simple life if that makes sense

That sort of nails it for me. Life in the US takes a little more work, it requires more out of you, but the rewards are also higher. (Again, VERY hard to generalize, and certainly exceptions exist in both countries.)

And yeah, it really is house prices in the UK that are the killer. I live in the SE, because that's where the job market led me, and there are very few 3-bed houses within 10 miles of me that you could buy for under £300K ($400Kish at the moment), never mind ones that you would want to live in. Compare that to the house we sold when we left IL, which went for $160K and which was really lovely in all kinds of ways. (I know that's an extreme example...)

I dunno. I guess I'm just tired of feeling squeezed all the time.

All that said, Trump scares the shit out of me.

IMO it's very difficult to compare US and UK house prices. We moved to NJ from Cheshire (Chester). Prices in NJ were way higher...add to that property taxes were approx 10x higher...higher utilities/tv/cell phones/car insurance etc.
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 7:33 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
IMO it's very difficult to compare US and UK house prices. We moved to NJ from Cheshire (Chester). Prices in NJ were way higher...add to that property taxes were approx 10x higher...higher utilities/tv/cell phones/car insurance etc.
and with interest rates as low as they are, sometimes the utilities and taxes are more than the mortgage. Then you have the high price of used cars and food prices. You just trade one set of expenses and issues for a different set.

Move to Wales, much cheaper housing , free prescriptions and cheap education.
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 7:43 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by transatlantic_chap
I guess when I said 'salaries in the UK are fairly low' I was confining it to my own particular field. Most of the jobs I look at here pay in the high £20K - low £30K range, whereas the same kinds of jobs (i.e. ones I could feasibly get) often pay in the high $50Ks. I know that there are hidden costs (tax, healthcare, summer camps) but when you factor in the cost of living here in SE England, it's not much of a comparison. I realise that I could head up to Sheffield or Norwich and find a lot more affordability, but there would also be a commensurate drop in salary and job availability.


The sweet spot for me seems to be US college towns -- good jobs/salaries, cheap housing, good schools, friendly vibe, low(ish) crime.
One college town which you may find appealing if you don't mind the winter is Missoula. Beautiful western Montana and northern Idaho nearby, and a short plane flight to Seattle.

I guess besides costs quality of life is another issue. Education for children is rather dismal, medical costs can be beyond belief.
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 8:40 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by mrken30
... Move to Wales, much cheaper housing , free prescriptions and cheap education.
^^^^, provided that you can get a fairly well paid job (for Wales).
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 8:49 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by cautiousjon
^^^^, provided that you can get a fairly well paid job (for Wales).
Doesn't the same go for getting a job in a small college town in the US? The college towns around here have the college and not much else.
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Old Jul 22nd 2016, 9:50 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living/quality of life/best place for kids -- US vs UK

Originally Posted by cautiousjon
^^^^, provided that you can get a fairly well paid job (for Wales).
But a lower paid job in Wales still gets you more house compared to South East. Salaries in Ireland are a lot higher than Wales and job market is better, so also an option.
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