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The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Old Dec 7th 2004, 11:49 pm
  #16  
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Exclamation Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by Bob
Yeah, thing is, with all these costs...it ain't great service in a lot of places, only if your lucky and in a major city, any other city and the healthcare is crap.
People don't realize how the US healthcare industry is better than 99.99999% of the healthcare system in every other country (including Canada and it's antiquated facilities). Study after study has affirmed this over and over again.

It's a FREE-MARKET industry that's fueled by MONEY, or more accurately, PROFIT.

If a doctor knows he can double his income by performing more -- he'll perform more surgeries.

If a doctor in Canada knows he's on a set salary set by some pencil-pusher in the government -- he'll do the bare minimum and golf the rest of the time.

Money is what drives the latest medical breakthroughs you see on CNN. Money is what helps build the new cancer treatment centers and new emergency trauma departments.

Without that money -- it's no different than mexico.

And those who put no money into this system, deserve no right to complain.

Why does the US Army get most of it's technology created by private sector industries? Not like the US Army can't hire it's own salaried engineers. One word: PROFIT.

PROFIT -> +MOTIVATION -> +RESOURCES -> ADVANCEMENT (_INDUSTRY_)

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Old Dec 7th 2004, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by supernav
If you want emergency care. Sure. It's an important function of a civilized country.

But what gives you the right to stick me with the bill?

1) Emergency treatment is a right.

2) FREE Emergency treatment is *not* a right.

_big_ difference.

Every hospital in the country stays afloat by billing the working-class, or billing the government, which in turns bills the working class through taxes.

Some pats on the back of your local working class american should be in order.

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Believe me buddy, I'm not sticking you with anything. I'd do without going to a doctor to avoid a bill. But, if I was unlucky enough to actually get sick, then I guess I'd join the rest of the American citizens who work and are underinsured and have NO CHOICE. Who in heaven's name are you to think you're so much better than another human because you have better insurance?
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Old Dec 7th 2004, 11:55 pm
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Exclamation Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by AmerLisa
Believe me buddy, I'm not sticking you with anything. I'd do without going to a doctor to avoid a bill. But, if I was unlucky enough to actually get sick, then I guess I'd join the rest of the American citizens who work and are underinsured and have NO CHOICE. Who in heaven's name are you to think you're so much better than another human because you have better insurance?
My insurance is no better than insurance ANYONE can get for a mere $50 a month -- which i'm sure your average uninsured joe happily spends on beers and cigarettes instead.

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Old Dec 7th 2004, 11:58 pm
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Default Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by supernav
My insurance is no better than insurance ANYONE can get for a mere $50 a month -- which i'm sure your average uninsured joe happily spends on beers and cigarettes instead.

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LOL $50 a month? What planet are you on?
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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:00 am
  #20  
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Default Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by supernav
My insurance is no better than insurance ANYONE can get for a mere $50 a month -- which i'm sure your average uninsured joe happily spends on beers and cigarettes instead.
The insurance people get through work is often crap, look at the whole HMO system, it's crap, and yet people still pay a premium for it.
Research and all that is dandy, it's done all over the world, yet over here it's all about the money and location, there are plenty of crap hospitals the world over, but crap ones over here still charge an arm and a leg.
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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:09 am
  #21  
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Default Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by supernav
If you want emergency care. Sure. It's an important function of a civilized country.

But what gives you the right to stick me with the bill?

1) Emergency treatment is a right.

2) FREE Emergency treatment is *not* a right.

_big_ difference.

<<snip>>

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re 2) I believe it is Federally mandated that no medical provider can refuse a person treatment at an ER dept. based on their ability to pay. So, in fact, the US government does allow free emergency treatment for those who can't afford to pay the bill.

At least that's what I read in my local paper this past weekend and I recall my manager (she's a nurse) telling me the same some months ago.

See-
http://www.newsobserver.com/business...-8241136c.html
In the section titled 'Why Do They Do It'

However, this only applies to the ER dept. If a patient does the same at say, an urgent care clinic, the free treatment does not apply.
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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:12 am
  #22  
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Default Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by supernav
People don't realize how the US healthcare industry is better than 99.99999% of the healthcare system in every other country (including Canada and it's antiquated facilities). Study after study has affirmed this over and over again.
Better at what? Making a profit, quality of life, life expectancy after cancer,what? Please tell us who is measuring what and how and provide suitable links.

Originally Posted by supernav
It's a FREE-MARKET industry that's fueled by MONEY, or more accurately, PROFIT.
If you think healthcare in the US is a free market, you are simply and sadly delusional. It is a monopoly enforced by the lobbying groups in Washington. There are very few free market forces working here.

Originally Posted by supernav
Money is what drives the latest medical breakthroughs you see on CNN. Money is what helps build the new cancer treatment centers and new emergency trauma departments. Without that money -- it's no different than mexico.
Money is fine, but all it's producing now is more and more profits for the industry. If there's no real competition, money ain't going to improve it at all. Capitalism is probably a better system than communism, but it isn't perfect and sometimes requires correction. An example would be IBM in the eighties or Micro$oft in the nineties. I think the example for this decade is probably going to be the out-of-control and corrupt US healthcare system as it stinks. Just how much of GDP do you think it can actually take before people say enough?

Originally Posted by supernav
And those who put no money into this system, deserve no right to complain.
One would presume you belong to the other group. Why not simply put down all those who can't pay and be done with it.
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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:12 am
  #23  
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Default Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by supernav
My insurance is no better than insurance ANYONE can get for a mere $50 a month -- which i'm sure your average uninsured joe happily spends on beers and cigarettes instead.

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where do I sign up.

seriously.
please.
show me a fully comprehensive $50 health insurance policy and I'll show my arse off the top of a double decker bus.
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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:15 am
  #24  
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Exclamation Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by AmerLisa
LOL $50 a month? What planet are you on?
Earth.

No Virginia, i don't talk out of my arse.

When i was unemployed once, i got a $50 HealthNet coverage for myself. It was basically emergency treatment only -- but what more do i want. If i got into a car accident -- i wouldn't be a burden on the state for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If I had cancer, etc. -- I'm sure i could muster up $200-$300/month by myself or with help from family members.

If i can do it -- so can others. It ain't rocket science.

And to the other poster: Yes FREE emergency treatment _is_ a right in california. Which is precisely what's draining the budget coffers and putting healthcare in california into a crisis level. It's what took a perfectly good healthcare system and put it into shambles. Especially here in LA. Same thing with auto insurance. Apparently it's a right NOT to have auto insurance or driver's licenses either. Only rich people should have to pay for that stuff.

Only in the US are people willing to pay more money protecting their cars, then their bodies.

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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:17 am
  #25  
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Default Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by supernav
But what gives you the right to stick me with the bill?
Dunno -- I seem to have got stuck with part of the bill for invading Iraq and murdering a few thousand people in the search for WMD that didn't exist. Seems folks are often stuck with bills for services they never even ordered or wanted.
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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:20 am
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Default Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Dunno -- I seem to have got stuck with part of the bill for invading Iraq and murdering a few thousand people in the search for WMD that didn't exist. Seems folks are often stuck with bills for services they never even ordered or wanted.
You won't be paying for Iraq, your kids will.
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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:21 am
  #27  
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Exclamation Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Better at what? Making a profit, quality of life, life expectancy after cancer,what? Please tell us who is measuring what and how and provide suitable links.
Your argument completely runs w/o merit if you don't even believe in the concept of Profit ensuring Advancement.

If the Government was in charge of providing us our vehicles -- want to take a guess and what state of vehicles we'd be driving right now?

As for your other argument:

Where's the monopoly? Let's see:

You can choose your doctor

You can choose your medical provider

You can choose your hospital

You can even choose your medicines

The moment the government starts telling everyone where to go, what to get, and how much to pay or not to pay -- you've completely removed the incentives for every single healthcare professional at EVERY single level.

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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:21 am
  #28  
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Talking Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Dunno -- I seem to have got stuck with part of the bill for invading Iraq and murdering a few thousand people in the search for WMD that didn't exist. Seems folks are often stuck with bills for services they never even ordered or wanted.
Well i don't believe in the Iraq War either -- but that opens up a whole other can of beans.

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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:24 am
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Default Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Originally Posted by supernav
Your argument completely runs w/o merit if you don't even believe in the concept of Profit ensuring Advancement.

If the Government was in charge of providing us our vehicles -- want to take a guess and what state of vehicles we'd be driving right now?

As for your other argument:

Where's the monopoly? Let's see:

You can choose your doctor

You can choose your medical provider

You can choose your hospital

You can even choose your medicines

The moment the government starts telling everyone where to go, what to get, and how much to pay or not to pay -- you've completely removed the incentives for every single healthcare professional at EVERY single level.

-= nav =-
when it comes time to pay the bill
can you choose your bailifs?
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Old Dec 8th 2004, 12:46 am
  #30  
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Default Re: The Cost of Heart Surgery in the US (my FIL)

Prior to marrying my wonderful American wife 32 months ago we had to discuss this particular subject. If I was not fully covered then there was no way we could live in the USA and I would not expect her to move to the UK either. Fortunately evrything worked out in my favour. Was this a matter for consideration for members of this forum or was it plain Hobsons choice?
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