Swisstony

So, when we moved here in 2008, it was as tempoorary residents on an intercompany transfer.

We had L1/L2 visas. In order to have a fallback position in case the worst happened and my company downsized or wanted to send me back before I was ready, we applied for and received Green cards.

So now, having been here three years, I am being head-hunted by another company.

A big consideration in whether to potentially accept the job is: do I really want to stay here in the US indefinitely? ...have my kids go to college here, retire here.... etc

I know that only my family and me can answer this, but I'd be grateful for any thoughts from y'all....

...what questions did you have when you considered this?
...how did you resolve them?
...what practical considerations should I be aware of ... financially, administratively etc?

Any thoughts welcome....

Cheers

Tony

Rete

Unless you are from a country that will not allow you dual citizenship, I don't understand what the problem is. But, since you are asking, I'm assuming that Switzerland does not allow dual citizenship. Since the UK does, perhaps there is someone here that has faced the same dilemna. After all, even with US citizenship, it does not mean you have to remain in the US. You are free to retain that citizenship and live anywhere else in the world that will accept you as a resident.

Assumed you are talking naturalization because accepting another job has no bearing on future living arrangements.

avanutria

Rete, I don't think the OP is asking about citizenship issues, but rather whether he and his family want to make the transition from "this is just a temp job and we go home on x date" to "this is home now, we will plan to live here indefinitely". It can be difficult for some.

Tony:

Do you have parents in the UK who may need help as they become elderly? If so, do you have siblings who may be willing and able to look after them?

I don't know if you have kids already or not, but if you do, how settled are they here? Do they talk about the UK and things/people they miss? How long before they are of legal age and able to decide for themselves where they want to be?

If your new job fell through, would you be financially stable? Medically (health insurance) secure?

When I moved to the UK I was first there as a student and then as a spouse. When I moved to the spousal visa my intention was to live there indefinitely. That was a little difficult for me. I didn't realize how difficult it was until my DH started talking about wanting to live in the US someday. Once the option of "permanent or not permanent" was raised I found it very difficult to consider never going back to live in the states.

Swisstony

Hi Avanutria - you have it in a nutshell - the question that is.

Yes, I do have an elderly mother in the UK and I would hope my brother might be able to help look after here - but am concerned that this burden would fall unfairly on him.

We do have kids and that' s a big reason why I am considering taking the role - they are so settled here, we moved from UK to Switzerland (I'm not Swiss, by the way....) and then from Switzerland to here and the upheaval is huge. They don't know the UK at all really, so a move 'back' there would be a move to a foreign country as far as they are concerned.

Would anyone be financially stable here without a job? I'd be OK for a little while, but unless I could find another job (I would be reasonably confident, but it may take a while) ....then we could be in trouble.....

thanks for your thoughts - I appreciate it - (how) did you resolve this question?

Steve_

You can have Swiss citizenship and US citizenship simultaneously, I knew someone who had it. They had British citizenship as well.

I suppose the usual issues are things like taxes and social security. Social security in the US I think is not as bad as people make out, it gives you roughly the same amount of money as a British state pension.

You also get Medicare eventually, but if you get ill in the US the costs are usually going to be higher.

Taxes are lower in the US than in Europe generally, although not by as wide of a margin as some people think, although capital gains in the US is much lower. And I'll be surprised if taxes don't trend upwards in the US.

The one thing a lot of people aren't aware of is the foreign exclusion limit as explained in the instructions for Form 2555 - i.e. if you are an LPR/US citizen you can only exclude so much of your income from US taxation if you move abroad (this is widely confused with the foreign tax credit - they are not the same thing). Probably doesn't affect that many people as you need to be earning a significant amount to be above the limit but worth bearing in mind, because it's not as easy to move back as you might think.

Schools are generally crapper in the US than in Europe, but it depends where in the US you are (and where in Europe).

avanutria

Well, my parents weren't an issue as they are already deceased, but I do have an elderly grandmother that I try to keep an eye on. However, she lives in New York and I'm in Oregon so geographically she's just as far away as she had been before!

When I was living in the UK and thinking "I will never move back to the US" we tended to take our annual vacations in the US. My DH has always had an interest in America, and sometimes we would be visiting various relatives as part of the trip. If I had known at the time that I *would* be moving back to the US I would have taken my vacations differently and explored various parts of Europe instead. That's my one regret regarding travel, but I made the best decisions I could at the time.

No kids in the picture for us. I moved around a lot as a kid, though, which I think has added greatly to my nomadic tendencies in young adulthood. If you move back to the UK you may find your kids want to move back to the US as adults anyway! If you can stay long enough to get citizenship for yourself and them, you can give them that option and I think that would be a wonderful gift.

We do miss the NHS. Our first nine or ten months here we had no health insurance and we were fortunate not to have any accidents or major illnesses. We're both in reasonably good health and opted not to take risks like skiing so that was our gamble and it worked out for us.

I am very glad to be back in the US. The main things I missed while in the UK (besides my brother, who lives in Texas (another nomad!) so that's not changed too much anyway) were the availability of American food and American shopping options! We have more living space here for less money than in the UK, and easier transportation (not public, which is the tradeoff). I can take the classes and pursue the interests that I want, and I have a wood shop in my garage. I didn't even have a garage in England, let alone a wood shop.

I think before you can go much further with speculation you need to have a chat with your spouse and your kids and see what their take is. Where is "home" for them - the US, the UK, or something in between?

Edited to add: DH has two brothers and elderly parents. One brother lives a few miles away and the other will be living about an hour away by train. So I don't think he feels too guilty for leaving. And he loves living in the US, at least so far. The blog linked in my signature is his.

Sally Redux

Yeah good question, as time goes on it is very much harder to extricate yourself from the situation you are in, especially as kids go to college here.

In our hearts, my husband and I want to move back, but practically it is too difficult now and for the foreseeable future. So I guess I'm saying that you have to ask yourself if you all really want that big commitment.

Steve_

"You can't go home again". After 2-3 years I think it's a pointless discussion about "going back", you can't go back unless you have a time machine. Everyone you know will have changed and you will have changed as well. And they won't relate to you in the same way because of your experiences abroad.

Rete

It's Rete not Rene ;-) and I know Tony didn't mention naturalization but taking a new position doesn't equate to never leaving the US.

Tony, I'm assuming since you left the UK to live in other countries you had no qualms about leaving your parents behind. Would you mind terribly if your children found that they didn't want to return to the UK and wanted to continue living in the US or perhaps in another country altogether? They would, in essence, be doing the same as you.

Cape Blue

On the kids front, the one downside I can see is that they will grow up in a different culture to the one you grew up in. This is often quite stark with kids in the UK whose parents came from Pakistan etc and the kids culture is quite different than their parents, which seems to cause a lot of problems within the family dynamic.

Obviously it won't be the same extent UK to US, but you'll have to get used to your kids not having a great deal of the UK about them and have to grit your teeth when they use "like" every 3rd word or "awesome" to describe something that is merely OK and so on.

Your kids will be culturally different to you, not just generationally but in those subtle ways that the US is different than the UK.

Swisstony

Hello Rete,

Well, I want them to be happy. Which is a big reason why I want to avoid uprooting them again now. If, in the future, they decided to move abroad, then, so long as they are happy, then so would I be. It's a good point though and I did have significant qualms about leaving my parents as I moved abroad. Sadly my father passed way since we left, though I was able to be with him at the end.
- I think my mum is sad she doesn't see her grandchildren frequently. However, now my brother has presented her with some further grandkids, this will help.

We will be vacationing all together in the UK next month, which is nice....

Thanks for your thoughts..

Tony

Bob

Did you say you already have greencards?

If you do, then nothing lost by doing it.

If you don't and your'e still on your L1's....well that changes things, a new company means you'd probably end up on H1B which wouldn't allow your OH to work etc.

So those would be the first thoughts to look into and consider.

Having kids also does make it tricky...where do you see them going to uni? I the UK, then would need 3 years residence before they start to get UK rates for instance, or they'd be international rates. Depending on status in the US, they may or may not get local rates too, but then if they're young, who knows what the future holds.

lisa67

We decided to stay here "permanently" after our temporary contract was up because the kids seemed so settled and we haven't looked back. My parents come to visit and stay for 4 weeks twice a year and I know that the time will come when they won't be able to do that as they get older, but by then my kids will be more independent so I can travel back to the UK to see them more often.
Having recently spent some time on holiday in the UK I was really looking forward to getting "home" to TX.

Jerseygirl

Well said Sally. Once kids attend uni here...this is where they will probably make their home...even if you return to the UK.

Rubbish!! You can always go home...Jon Bon Jovi said so.

I find when I go back to stay in the UK people and things haven't changed that much and I've been in the US for 15 years. You just have to read through the thread in the MBTTUK forum to realise that yes you can always go home.

lyonsden1193

Your right that you can't go home but.... I have found comfort both sides of the atlantic and have found that 'going home to top up on good stuff on a regular basis' really helps take the pangs away. The biggest considerations are your old age and finances. Your children will inevitably make their own way in the world and if you have a great relationship with them, then both you and they will make the effort to see each other as often as you need to. If you do decide to go back you need to look at it as eight to twelve hours away not a continent. Remember if your kids get jobs in another part of this country it can take just as long to get to them as crossing the pond.