View Poll Results: Should compulsory ID be brought into law ?
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll
Compulsory ID Poll
Dec 27th 2006, 5:38 pm
#46
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Originally Posted by Texas_Dave
National security is a good arguement.
PR's have to carry cards at all time, but a USC does not. So is someone without a card a USC, or an illegal alien, or a tourist. A compulsory ID card would answer that question.
PR's have to carry cards at all time, but a USC does not. So is someone without a card a USC, or an illegal alien, or a tourist. A compulsory ID card would answer that question.
You can get fake drivers licenses and passports, a national ID card wil be no different.
Dec 27th 2006, 5:39 pm
#47
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Originally Posted by anabella
Whether you like it or not you are already carrying several ID cards with you most of the time while being in the US (I am assuming that you are British) i.e. your driving license and green card.. and these are quite useful to you when you are asked for an ID, aren't they? 
Dec 27th 2006, 5:40 pm
#48
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Originally Posted by Sally
You often need to show it with credit card? Or do I just look shifty?
You're not required to show your ID with a credit card...
Dec 27th 2006, 5:44 pm
#49
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 30,102
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Does anyone know if not having to carry your driving license, while driving in the UK has changed? That always struck me as very British.
Dec 27th 2006, 5:47 pm
#50
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Aspen, CO
Posts: 9,845
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Originally Posted by gruffbrown
Does anyone know if not having to carry your driving license, while driving in the UK has changed? That always struck me as very British.
The police never asks for it when they stop you so I doubt that you need to carry it with you..
Dec 27th 2006, 5:53 pm
#51
Powder Maggot
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 4,452
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
National Security is something they'd love to persuade you is the reason...
You can get fake drivers licenses and passports, a national ID card wil be no different.
You can get fake drivers licenses and passports, a national ID card wil be no different.
Dec 27th 2006, 5:58 pm
#52
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,717
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Then perhaps the debate should be on the technology used rather than the requirement to carry.
Originally Posted by AdobePinon
Indeed. A national ID card would be a godsend to the forgers!
Dec 27th 2006, 6:40 pm
#53
Powder Maggot
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 4,452
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Originally Posted by Texas_Dave
Then perhaps the debate should be on the technology used rather than the requirement to carry.
Dec 27th 2006, 6:49 pm
#54
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,717
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Making cards more complicated doesn't make them easier to forge.
The fact that credit and debit cards can be forged doesn't stop them being used, and widely accepted.
It is possible to make cards so complex to forge that the cost of doing so deters most forgers - thats the idea behind security features in bank notes.
Holding multiple cards information in one card is no more dangerous than holding multiple cards in your wallet. One big bonus of using just one card is you can spend more on making a secure card. Combining 10 cards in to one card means the total cost of production is dramatically reduced - allowing more to be spent on better security for the card. . .
The fact that credit and debit cards can be forged doesn't stop them being used, and widely accepted.
It is possible to make cards so complex to forge that the cost of doing so deters most forgers - thats the idea behind security features in bank notes.
Holding multiple cards information in one card is no more dangerous than holding multiple cards in your wallet. One big bonus of using just one card is you can spend more on making a secure card. Combining 10 cards in to one card means the total cost of production is dramatically reduced - allowing more to be spent on better security for the card. . .
Originally Posted by AdobePinon
You're not going to make a forgery-proof card, and concentrating everything into one card will make it that much easier to perfect the forgery. So..... back to the requirement!
Dec 27th 2006, 6:55 pm
#55
Powder Maggot
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 4,452
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Originally Posted by Texas_Dave
Making cards more complicated doesn't make them easier to forge.
The fact that credit and debit cards can be forged doesn't stop them being used, and widely accepted.
It is possible to make cards so complex to forge that the cost of doing so deters most forgers - thats the idea behind security features in bank notes.
Holding multiple cards information in one card is no more dangerous than holding multiple cards in your wallet. One big bonus of using just one card is you can spend more on making a secure card. Combining 10 cards in to one card means the total cost of production is dramatically reduced - allowing more to be spent on better security for the card. . .
The fact that credit and debit cards can be forged doesn't stop them being used, and widely accepted.
It is possible to make cards so complex to forge that the cost of doing so deters most forgers - thats the idea behind security features in bank notes.
Holding multiple cards information in one card is no more dangerous than holding multiple cards in your wallet. One big bonus of using just one card is you can spend more on making a secure card. Combining 10 cards in to one card means the total cost of production is dramatically reduced - allowing more to be spent on better security for the card. . .
Dec 27th 2006, 7:15 pm
#56
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Originally Posted by Texas_Dave
Making cards more complicated doesn't make them easier to forge.
The fact that credit and debit cards can be forged doesn't stop them being used, and widely accepted.
It is possible to make cards so complex to forge that the cost of doing so deters most forgers - thats the idea behind security features in bank notes.
Holding multiple cards information in one card is no more dangerous than holding multiple cards in your wallet. One big bonus of using just one card is you can spend more on making a secure card. Combining 10 cards in to one card means the total cost of production is dramatically reduced - allowing more to be spent on better security for the card. . .
The fact that credit and debit cards can be forged doesn't stop them being used, and widely accepted.
It is possible to make cards so complex to forge that the cost of doing so deters most forgers - thats the idea behind security features in bank notes.
Holding multiple cards information in one card is no more dangerous than holding multiple cards in your wallet. One big bonus of using just one card is you can spend more on making a secure card. Combining 10 cards in to one card means the total cost of production is dramatically reduced - allowing more to be spent on better security for the card. . .
Dec 27th 2006, 7:17 pm
#57
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,717
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Current technology relies on unencrypted data being stored on a magnetic stripe. A $200 card reader/writer can copy this - an exact and perfect copy. Of course the card would not hold up to physical inspection, but a card printer is only $300 more.
Using card encryption each card would be unique. You couldn't get good at forging cards, as each card is not encrypted in the same way. Each institution or body would hold a public key to decrypt only the information relevant to them. The card holder (you) would hold the key to decrypt all the information. So even if one part of the card was cracked and copied it would only hold one piece of your information. Combining a credit card transaction with the photograph from your passport data, or fingerprint data would further provide security.
One card - 10 records. 10 layers of security, with the ability to combine elements from each record. Add in to this clever monitoring - ie you used your card in an ATM in Dallas and now its being used as ID in Vegas, would flag an alert.
I can copy the average credit or debit card or an AAMVA magnetic stripe drivers license or carry permit in 1 minute. I can take this copy and swipe it through a machine as though it were the original. Yet all these cards are considered acceptible for every day use. The drivers license even gets you on a domestic flight.
Using card encryption each card would be unique. You couldn't get good at forging cards, as each card is not encrypted in the same way. Each institution or body would hold a public key to decrypt only the information relevant to them. The card holder (you) would hold the key to decrypt all the information. So even if one part of the card was cracked and copied it would only hold one piece of your information. Combining a credit card transaction with the photograph from your passport data, or fingerprint data would further provide security.
One card - 10 records. 10 layers of security, with the ability to combine elements from each record. Add in to this clever monitoring - ie you used your card in an ATM in Dallas and now its being used as ID in Vegas, would flag an alert.
I can copy the average credit or debit card or an AAMVA magnetic stripe drivers license or carry permit in 1 minute. I can take this copy and swipe it through a machine as though it were the original. Yet all these cards are considered acceptible for every day use. The drivers license even gets you on a domestic flight.
Originally Posted by AdobePinon
What I mean is that instead of having to forge ten different cards, all the effort can be concentrated on a single card. Seems like you'd get pretty good at it pretty fast.
Dec 27th 2006, 7:48 pm
#58
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Originally Posted by Texas_Dave
Current technology relies on unencrypted data being stored on a magnetic stripe. A $200 card reader/writer can copy this - an exact and perfect copy. Of course the card would not hold up to physical inspection, but a card printer is only $300 more.
Using card encryption each card would be unique. You couldn't get good at forging cards, as each card is not encrypted in the same way. Each institution or body would hold a public key to decrypt only the information relevant to them. The card holder (you) would hold the key to decrypt all the information. So even if one part of the card was cracked and copied it would only hold one piece of your information. Combining a credit card transaction with the photograph from your passport data, or fingerprint data would further provide security.
One card - 10 records. 10 layers of security, with the ability to combine elements from each record. Add in to this clever monitoring - ie you used your card in an ATM in Dallas and now its being used as ID in Vegas, would flag an alert.
I can copy the average credit or debit card or an AAMVA magnetic stripe drivers license or carry permit in 1 minute. I can take this copy and swipe it through a machine as though it were the original. Yet all these cards are considered acceptible for every day use. The drivers license even gets you on a domestic flight.
Using card encryption each card would be unique. You couldn't get good at forging cards, as each card is not encrypted in the same way. Each institution or body would hold a public key to decrypt only the information relevant to them. The card holder (you) would hold the key to decrypt all the information. So even if one part of the card was cracked and copied it would only hold one piece of your information. Combining a credit card transaction with the photograph from your passport data, or fingerprint data would further provide security.
One card - 10 records. 10 layers of security, with the ability to combine elements from each record. Add in to this clever monitoring - ie you used your card in an ATM in Dallas and now its being used as ID in Vegas, would flag an alert.
I can copy the average credit or debit card or an AAMVA magnetic stripe drivers license or carry permit in 1 minute. I can take this copy and swipe it through a machine as though it were the original. Yet all these cards are considered acceptible for every day use. The drivers license even gets you on a domestic flight.
You may not even need to "forge" the card, look at what those kids from NJ did at their local DMV...
Just get a legitimate card through other means.
Dec 27th 2006, 8:04 pm
#59
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,367
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
The problem is one of cost for the forgers... but it will be possible. Then its just a matter of who wants one.
Dec 27th 2006, 8:36 pm
#60
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,717
Re: Compulsory ID Poll
No technology is 100% safe, but it can be made safer. My point was that by combining data on to one card it need not be any less secure than having 10 seperate cards. It may not be any safer (it could be a lot safer), but importantly not any less safer.
Criminals are not going to steal a million dollars to rent a super computer to break the cryptography of a single card, unless the data on the card is worth more than the original outlay/effort - which rules out the majority of us.
Going back to compulsory ID cards . . .
Criminals are not going to steal a million dollars to rent a super computer to break the cryptography of a single card, unless the data on the card is worth more than the original outlay/effort - which rules out the majority of us.
Going back to compulsory ID cards . . .