Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > USA
Reload this Page >

Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Old Jan 5th 2011, 10:52 pm
  #31  
Member
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
CalBrit is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

I wonder if it was because we were using the returning EU resident passport line?

Or maybe we look suspicious!
CalBrit is offline  
Old Jan 6th 2011, 5:17 pm
  #32  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
ian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by CalBrit
2. If your child has both passports they MUST now enter the US on the US passport (or surrender US citizenship)...
Rubbish. I agree they need to enter the US with their US passport, but there is NO requirement that they surrender US citizenship even if they don't use their US passport to enter the US.

Ian
ian-mstm is offline  
Old Jan 6th 2011, 6:24 pm
  #33  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland (via Belfast, Manchester, Toronto and London)
Posts: 4,802
MarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by CalBrit
I wonder if it was because we were using the returning EU resident passport line?
Maybe. We chose the line based on the passports we were using. So my wife went through the UK/EU line with her UK passport - while I went through the other line with the kids since we were using our US passports.
MarylandNed is offline  
Old Jan 7th 2011, 5:08 pm
  #34  
Member
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
CalBrit is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by ian-mstm
Rubbish. I agree they need to enter the US with their US passport, but there is NO requirement that they surrender US citizenship even if they don't use their US passport to enter the US.

Ian
My misunderstanding then. It is what I've been told... here is a quote from the American Citizen Services at the US Embassy in London:

Q: I have dual nationality but my U.S. passport has expired and I need to go the U.S. very soon. Can I go there just using my British passport?

A: It is federal law* that all U.S. citizens, even dual nationals, must enter and depart the United States using a valid U.S. passport. It will therefore be necessary to replace your passport prior to your travel to the United States.

*Sec 215(b) Immigration & Nationality Act [8 United States Code 1185]


The link to this is: http://www.usembassy.org.uk/americanservices/?p=86

--
I'd be very interested to find out if this is incorrect.

Thanks
CalBrit is offline  
Old Jan 7th 2011, 5:42 pm
  #35  
Member
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
CalBrit is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Sorry - my last post was slightly off the point, what I meant to quote was the following from the Virgin Atlantic website:

NON-US PASSPORT HOLDERS BORN IN UNITED STATES
If you are a holder of a non-US passport and were born in the United States of America you need to be aware of a change in policy by the US Government. US law states that anyone born in the USA is considered to be a US citizen and if that person attempts to travel to the US on any document other than a US passport , they must carry with them a "loss of nationality letter". These letters can be obtained from US Embassies.

As the US Immigration Service will refuse entry to the US of any person born in the USA attempting to enter the US on a non-US passport without the loss of nationality letter, Virgin Atlantic is not able to carry such passengers unless they have the "letter". We apologise for any inconvenience that this may cause to our passengers


I guess I had got the US Embassy info and the airline supplied info confused...

SO the question is - Does Virgin Atlantic's website have it wrong?

We always travel Virgin and I guess that was why this was so ingrained in my mind as the law...

Last edited by CalBrit; Jan 7th 2011 at 7:13 pm.
CalBrit is offline  
Old Jan 7th 2011, 9:37 pm
  #36  
Bob
BE Site Lead
 
Bob's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 92,167
Bob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by CalBrit
Sorry - my last post was slightly off the point, what I meant to quote was the following from the Virgin Atlantic website:

NON-US PASSPORT HOLDERS BORN IN UNITED STATES
If you are a holder of a non-US passport and were born in the United States of America you need to be aware of a change in policy by the US Government. US law states that anyone born in the USA is considered to be a US citizen and if that person attempts to travel to the US on any document other than a US passport , they must carry with them a "loss of nationality letter". These letters can be obtained from US Embassies.

As the US Immigration Service will refuse entry to the US of any person born in the USA attempting to enter the US on a non-US passport without the loss of nationality letter, Virgin Atlantic is not able to carry such passengers unless they have the "letter". We apologise for any inconvenience that this may cause to our passengers


I guess I had got the US Embassy info and the airline supplied info confused...

SO the question is - Does Virgin Atlantic's website have it wrong?

We always travel Virgin and I guess that was why this was so ingrained in my mind as the law...
If you are a US citizen, you can't be denied entry if you don't have a valid US passport, though you will have a lot of hassle, and getting the plane might not happen.

What you can't do is show a passport of another country to enter the US unless you have officially renounced your US citizenship, which is what the quote you mention is talking about.
Bob is offline  
Old Jan 8th 2011, 11:44 am
  #37  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 1,248
Marocco has a reputation beyond reputeMarocco has a reputation beyond reputeMarocco has a reputation beyond reputeMarocco has a reputation beyond reputeMarocco has a reputation beyond reputeMarocco has a reputation beyond reputeMarocco has a reputation beyond reputeMarocco has a reputation beyond reputeMarocco has a reputation beyond reputeMarocco has a reputation beyond reputeMarocco has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by CalBrit
NON-US PASSPORT HOLDERS BORN IN UNITED STATES
If you are a holder of a non-US passport and were born in the United States of America you need to be aware of a change in policy by the US Government. US law states that anyone born in the USA is considered to be a US citizen and if that person attempts to travel to the US on any document other than a US passport , they must carry with them a "loss of nationality letter". These letters can be obtained from US Embassies.

As the US Immigration Service will refuse entry to the US of any person born in the USA attempting to enter the US on a non-US passport without the loss of nationality letter, Virgin Atlantic is not able to carry such passengers unless they have the "letter". We apologise for any inconvenience that this may cause to our passengers
Must be tough for those children of diplomats born in the US who are not US citizens. They can't get a US passport or a "loss of nationality letter".
Marocco is offline  
Old Jan 8th 2011, 12:15 pm
  #38  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland (via Belfast, Manchester, Toronto and London)
Posts: 4,802
MarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by Marocco
Must be tough for those children of diplomats born in the US who are not US citizens. They can't get a US passport or a "loss of nationality letter".
Yes- it's a myth that everyone born in the US is a US citizen. There are exceptions.

Another myth is that all US citizens must file tax returns. Also not true in all cases.
MarylandNed is offline  
Old Jan 8th 2011, 1:55 pm
  #39  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
ian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond reputeian-mstm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by MarylandNed
Another myth is that all US citizens must file tax returns. Also not true in all cases.
The language reads closer to: All USCs are subject to file tax returns unless they fall within an exemption category. That isn't quite the same as what you wrote... and demonstrates the inexactness of paraphrasing.

Ian
ian-mstm is offline  
Old Jan 8th 2011, 3:15 pm
  #40  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland (via Belfast, Manchester, Toronto and London)
Posts: 4,802
MarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by ian-mstm
The language reads closer to: All USCs are subject to file tax returns unless they fall within an exemption category. That isn't quite the same as what you wrote... and demonstrates the inexactness of paraphrasing.

Ian
I'm not disagreeing with you. I wasn't commenting on "the language" - I was commenting on the myth that some people believe to be true. What I was getting at is that I often see people writing something like "all US citizens MUST file tax returns no matter where they live in the world". This is incorrect.

The truth is that they MIGHT have to file a tax return (even if they live outside the US). Not every US citizen has to file a tax return (regardless of where they live). For example, those earning below a certain threshold in various income categories don't have to file a tax return at all.

Last edited by MarylandNed; Jan 8th 2011 at 3:17 pm.
MarylandNed is offline  
Old Jan 8th 2011, 3:47 pm
  #41  
Bob
BE Site Lead
 
Bob's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 92,167
Bob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond reputeBob has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by MarylandNed
I'm not disagreeing with you. I wasn't commenting on "the language" - I was commenting on the myth that some people believe to be true. What I was getting at is that I often see people writing something like "all US citizens MUST file tax returns no matter where they live in the world". This is incorrect.

The truth is that they MIGHT have to file a tax return (even if they live outside the US). Not every US citizen has to file a tax return (regardless of where they live). For example, those earning below a certain threshold in various income categories don't have to file a tax return at all.
But if they then want to receive a benefit from the US government, such as petitioning a visa, they do need tax returns. When no tax is owed, it's just as easy to file them currently than not bother and have to back date them in the future.
Bob is offline  
Old Jan 8th 2011, 4:14 pm
  #42  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland (via Belfast, Manchester, Toronto and London)
Posts: 4,802
MarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by Bob
But if they then want to receive a benefit from the US government, such as petitioning a visa, they do need tax returns. When no tax is owed, it's just as easy to file them currently than not bother and have to back date them in the future.
I don't think that tax returns are actually required for visa petitions. If you weren't required to file a tax return, how can they demand that you produce one? I agree though that it's probably better to always file even if you don't have to.
MarylandNed is offline  
Old Jan 8th 2011, 5:08 pm
  #43  
 
meauxna's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
meauxna has a reputation beyond reputemeauxna has a reputation beyond reputemeauxna has a reputation beyond reputemeauxna has a reputation beyond reputemeauxna has a reputation beyond reputemeauxna has a reputation beyond reputemeauxna has a reputation beyond reputemeauxna has a reputation beyond reputemeauxna has a reputation beyond reputemeauxna has a reputation beyond reputemeauxna has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by MarylandNed
I don't think that tax returns are actually required for visa petitions. If you weren't required to file a tax return, how can they demand that you produce one? I agree though that it's probably better to always file even if you don't have to.
If you petition someone, presumably it's because you plan on them following through with a visa application. When they do, the petitioner is required to complete an Affidavit of Support, which does require inclusion and information from the past 3 years income tax returns.

I see that you take exception with some of the general 'advice' here; please take into consideration that we've read and observed a lot of problems over the years and so tend to post the most helpful information, based on what really happens in the real world.

If a person was not required to file an income tax return because their income was insufficient, they should document the tax regulation from that year and (in an immigration case) include that with their filing to show they didn't need to file.
meauxna is offline  
Old Jan 8th 2011, 6:33 pm
  #44  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 59
Teach3r is just really niceTeach3r is just really niceTeach3r is just really niceTeach3r is just really niceTeach3r is just really niceTeach3r is just really niceTeach3r is just really niceTeach3r is just really nice
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by Bob
If you are a US citizen, you can't be denied entry if you don't have a valid US passport, though you will have a lot of hassle, and getting the plane might not happen.

What you can't do is show a passport of another country to enter the US unless you have officially renounced your US citizenship, which is what the quote you mention is talking about.
If you are a US citizen like my son you can ONLY travel on a USA passport... he, at the age of 5mths was denied re-entry because he only had UK passport. We had to goto us embassy in london and it was a lot of hassle
Teach3r is offline  
Old Jan 8th 2011, 8:54 pm
  #45  
The Kwisatz Haderach
 
Mummy in the foothills's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: North Wales
Posts: 8,080
Mummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Child Born In US Obtaining US & UK Passports

Originally Posted by CalBrit
My children have US and UK passports - born in US to British parents.

I used the standard US birth certificates for both passports with no problems.

The only issues I would point out are:

1. when living in the UK we had to go in person to the US Embassy in London with child and both parents to renew their US passports.

2. If your child has both passports they MUST now enter the US on the US passport (or surrender US citizenship) AND they must enter the UK on the UK passport. The UK situation is not quite so extreme, but I have had two occasions where the lack of UK passport has been an issue.

(1) travelling to UK with first child on US passport before obtaining UK passport, I was advised to a very least get "Right of Abode" put into her passport. However UK will not give "Right of Abode" to anyone who is eligible for a UK passport.

(2) on one occasion we travelled from the UK to France, her UK passport had expired (we were living in the UK at the time) so we decided to use the US one. However on return to UK she was almost refused entry as she should have been travelling on a UK passport, after about 40 minutes debate and consultation with senior immigration officials they stamped her into the UK for 3 months with instructions that we must immediately renew the UK passport.

SO I advise you to obtain both passports and keep them both valid at all times.

BTW the UK passport can be obtained and renewed through British Embassy in Washington DC - by mail!
Bolded part my emphasis.
But should you or your child lose the original that was issued less than 3 months after a birth (like I did with my sons) a new one will not be accepted for UK passport, so for us it was well worth the money.
Mummy in the foothills is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.