Steve Kettle

Just out of curiosity:

I have an old social security number from working in the US before on a work visa.
My wife does as well - from going to high school in the US. I have not worked there
for about 2 years and neither has she. We are not US citzens and cannot legally work
in the US.

If we just moved back to the US ( just went through customs like we were going on
vacation ) and just applied for work using those social security numbers what would
happen ? Would anybody find out ? How long could I work there.

I have an uncle that did this very same thing - he got the social security number
from being a student in the US - he worked there for 20 years and nobody said a thing
- not a letter or anything from the govt. He married an American so now is okay.

My social security number still works as I recently used it to get a credit
card in US.

Also someone told me INS is totally different from IRS. IRS does not care about
immigration so if you use SSN they do not care or inform INS of you working -
computer systems do not talk to one another.

Shelley

Once you have a Social Security Number, it is yours for life. SSNs are given out by
the Social Security Administration, not the INS or the IRS. However, since you are
not a US citizen, you need work authorization to get a job in the US. Your employer
is to verify you are either a US citizen, Permanent Resident or Employment Visa
Holder in order to employ you, so you could not just enter as a tourist and apply for
a job. Take Care. Shelley

"Steve Kettle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Just out of curiosity:
    >
    > I have an old social security number from working in the US before on a work visa.
    > My wife does as well - from going to high school in the US. I have not worked there
    > for about 2 years and neither has she. We are not US citzens and cannot legally
    > work in the US.
    >
    > If we just moved back to the US ( just went through customs like we were going on
    > vacation ) and just applied for work using those social security numbers what would
    > happen ? Would anybody find out ? How long could I work there.
    >
    > I have an uncle that did this very same thing - he got the social security
    > number from being a student in the US - he worked there for 20 years and nobody
    > said a thing - not a letter or anything from the govt. He married an American so
    > now is okay.
    >
    > My social security number still works as I recently used it to get a credit
    > card in US.
    >
    > Also someone told me INS is totally different from IRS. IRS does not care about
    > immigration so if you use SSN they do not care or inform INS of you working -
    > computer systems do not talk to one another.

R O E L Buenave

Dear Shelley

Hi there, i read your post on the immigration INS news group. I agree with you for
the most part. I thought i would pick your brain about something though. Many
companies , if there is a high need in a worker will hire as long as they have a SS
number, even if they don't have a legal work permit. It is the potential employee's
responsiblity to inform the employer about their work-status, but of course there
is just as many people who choose not to volunteer that information. Thats what
i've observed.

I suppose in that case...the guilty employee is liable for the sanctions of the
company... fines etc. The guilty employee can also be barred from visas to the united
states, and of course jeapardize any hopes of gaining permanent residency.... RIGHT?

My question is, how does the INS refuse you future visas ? in subsequent application
to the INS, or adjustment of status', do they have record of your unauthorized
employment? what would their proof be? how bout if one was out-of-status for a spell,
I'm sure that might figure into their visa denial, but again - why would the past
issues resurface? and where would the burden of proof lie? I suspect this gentleman's
'uncle' who worked for 20 years without authorization did it that way - by working
for a time, and then gained permanent residency by marriage - but i wonder if they
had trouble attaining the marriage visa??? This happens alot I suspect. I would think
the cases are into the millions.

Just food for thought, any responses would be appreciated:

Happy in Canada,

ROel

"Shelley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Once you have a Social Security Number, it is yours for life. SSNs are given out by
    > the Social Security Administration, not the INS or
the
    > IRS. However, since you are not a US citizen, you need work authorization to
get
    > a job in the US. Your employer is to verify you are either a US citizen, Permanent
    > Resident or Employment Visa Holder in order to employ you, so
you
    > could not just enter as a tourist and apply for a job. Take Care. Shelley
    >
    > "Steve Kettle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Just out of curiosity:
    > >
    > > I have an old social security number from working in the US before on a work
    > > visa. My wife does as well - from going to high school in the US. I have not
    > > worked there for about 2 years and neither has she. We are not US citzens and
    > > cannot legally work in the US.
    > >
    > > If we just moved back to the US ( just went through customs like we were going on
    > > vacation ) and just applied for work using those social security numbers what
    > > would happen ? Would anybody find out ? How long could I work there.
    > >
    > > I have an uncle that did this very same thing - he got the social security
    > > number from being a student in the US - he worked there for 20 years and nobody
    > > said a thing - not a letter or anything from the govt. He married an American so
    > > now is okay.
    > >
    > > My social security number still works as I recently used it to get a credit card
    > > in US.
    > >
    > > Also someone told me INS is totally different from IRS. IRS does not care about
    > > immigration so if you use SSN they do not care or inform INS of you working -
    > > computer systems do not talk to one another.
    >

Tackett

    > > My question is, how does the INS refuse you future visas ? in
subsequent
    > > application to the INS, or adjustment of status', do they have record of your
    > > unauthorized employment?
    >
    > Yes. If a person has a legitimate SSN, and that SSN is used to report
taxes,
    > the INS can get this information from the IRS.
    >
Unfortunately the INS is so pathetic that they don't catch this because the IRS will
give these criminals a tax number if their SSN is bogus. So another way for
immigrants to stay here illegally. But that is changing and maybe Americans will come
first in the US for a change. Not saying Americans are the elite of the world but
would be nice if we were first in our own country. But then since I lost my job
because it went to Mexico (%&*$ NAFTA) and now have problems competing with illegal
males that have invaded the area I might just be a bit biased.

Steve Kettle

I understand how you feel about people coming into the country and working
illegally. A country should let in anybody who creates jobs, creates wealth, creates
value. If a person cannot show they can do this they should not be let in - however
if they can show they will create jobs, wealth and value there entry should be given
right away. Another way of looking at it would be to say if the person moving to the
country adds to the standard of living and quality of the oridinary American they
should be let in.

In my opinion there as never been a country like the US. It is not perfect by any
means but it is closer to perfect than any other country in the world. The free
speech, property ownership laws, constitution are amazing. People there work so
hard, are so productive. To me it is a country of superstars - however it can be
even better.

I wish you the very best.


"Tackett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > My question is, how does the INS refuse you future visas ? in
    > subsequent
    > > > application to the INS, or adjustment of status', do they have record of your
    > > > unauthorized employment?
    > >
    > > Yes. If a person has a legitimate SSN, and that SSN is used to report
    > taxes,
    > > the INS can get this information from the IRS.
    > >
    > Unfortunately the INS is so pathetic that they don't catch this because the IRS
    > will give these criminals a tax number if their SSN is bogus. So another way for
    > immigrants to stay here illegally. But that is changing and maybe Americans will
    > come first in the US for a change. Not saying Americans are the elite of the world
    > but would be nice if we were first in our own country. But then since I lost my job
    > because it went to Mexico (%&*$ NAFTA) and now have problems competing with illegal
    > males that have invaded the area I might just be a bit biased.

James Donovan

"R o E L Buenaventura" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > Dear Shelley
    >
    > Hi there, i read your post on the immigration INS news group. I agree with you for
    > the most part. I thought i would pick your brain about something though. Many
    > companies , if there is a high need in a worker will hire as long as they have a SS
    > number, even if they don't have a legal work permit.

Not really. Companies will check your documentation. Some even keep copies on file.

    > It is the potential employee's responsiblity to inform the employer about their
    > work-status, but of course there is just as many people who choose not to volunteer
    > that information. Thats what i've observed.

When you are newly hired you have to fill out an i-9 form and show your employer your
documents. My employer kept a copy of my NYS drivers' license and social security
card on file with the i-9. My company makes sure every new hire is in status, because
an INS audit can cost us, both financially, and in reputation. I believe most
companies will operate in the same way.

    >
    > I suppose in that case...the guilty employee is liable for the sanctions of the
    > company... fines etc.

Well it's like this. The employee gets detained and deported and the employer is hit
with fines and sanctions.

    > The guilty employee can also be barred from visas to the united states, and of
    > course jeapardize any hopes of gaining permanent residency.... RIGHT?

Yep.

    > My question is, how does the INS refuse you future visas ? in subsequent
    > application to the INS, or adjustment of status', do they have record of your
    > unauthorized employment?

Yep. If they catch you, they book you and reference your file in any future action.
SOme people have managed to slip through the cracks by changing identity, but what
they have done is illegal, and if caught they would be barred permanently, again.

    > what would their proof be? how bout if one was out-of-status for a spell, I'm sure
    > that might figure into their visa denial, but again - why would the past issues
    > resurface?

Yes. But, you can be forgiven for certain types of status violations, especially when
you have broad based amnesties like 245(i) or you get married to a US citizen.

    > and where would the burden of proof lie?

Basically it is up to you to be honest. If you are honest, you will have a nicer time
dealing with INS. They will check to verify. If you lie, they will check anyway, and
your ass is toast.

Also, if you have been reading the INS website lately, you will see that commissioner
Ziglar has begun implementing some restructuring changes mandated by Congress. One
important one is the hiring of a CIO, who will seek to bring some order to the
information systems of INS, as well as integration with other Federal, state and
municipal governments, as well as local law enforcement. This means that data will
travel more freely and will be available in a more accurate and timely fashion than
ever before (in theory). This also means that your past violations will be more
certain to catch up with you.

    > I suspect this gentleman's 'uncle' who worked for 20 years without authorization
    > did it that way - by working for a time, and then gained permanent residency by
    > marriage - but i wonder if they had trouble attaining the marriage visa??? This
    > happens alot I suspect. I would think the cases are into the millions.

Pretty soon, this is (in theory) going to slow down. Sep. 11 is going to bring alot
of changes to the way INS does business, and the recent passage of the visa tracking
bill in the Senate will pave the way for more stringent legislation regarding visas
and illegal overstays.