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Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

Old Oct 13th 2011, 4:08 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

It seems that all of this discussion about residency and abode and domicile and passports and whatnot is likely irrelevant because the real issue is that you probably don't want to be invoking the bridge burning (just yet). It does seem like you have many arguments in favor of "habitual residence" in the UK, and there may come a time for the nuclear option but it's filled with risks and the potential for a loss of your visa and custody issues. Probably not what you had in mind when you came here.

There are some alternatives however. Taking off the lawyer hat and putting on the expat hat, we've seen some situations before in which mutual agreements have been reached for the benefit of the kids, and even for the marriages. There are things like one child spends a year with an Aunt back in the UK while the 'family' stays in the US to finish off an assignment. In your situation with your son looking at GSCEs this might be something to consider. There are other situations where a vacation is agreed to, in writing (i.e. "I will bring the kids back home on this date") and the family spends some time apart. There's also some tremendous therapeutic value it spending some time back home by yourself for a week or three seeing friends and old faces. While I don't know the particulars of your "trouble" there might be some counseling options here that, even if not fully successful, might tone down the ideas of 'revoking your passport and deporting you" kind of statements.

I guess my point is it doesn't necessarily have to be all legalistic. There might be some room for compromise. Of course your husband could be a wife-beater and have hidden your passports and I'm all off base, but you might also want to consider if there is a way to meet somewhat half-way in getting what you both want. And sorry if that ship has sailed, bridges burned, etc. but I did just want to throw this idea out there...
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 4:25 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
I find it hard to see how someone can be deemed "habitually resident" in a place where they are neither a citizen nor a permanent resident.
US courts usually claim jurisdiction for divorce and child custody if the couple have been resident in the state for more than six months. L1 visas typically last for several years. I'm no lawyer, but I think you may have difficulty claiming your habitual residence is in the UK when you live and work in the US and have the right to do so for an extended period of time. "Habitual" does not imply "permanence". I strongly advise the OP to get legal advice on this specific issue before doing anything.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Oct 13th 2011 at 5:21 pm. Reason: Clarified with "resident in the state"
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 4:45 pm
  #33  
 
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Default Re: Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

Originally Posted by Bethenny View Post
I don't want to try and imagine being in his situation, because in his situation I would return to the UK immediately. We never intended to stay, it is a secondment.
So presumably you already have a fixed date to return to the UK, is this in the near future?

Also, if you are on secondment wouldn't your husband returning to the UK immediately mean a) he would lose his job b) potentially have to repay all the costs of moving you to the US back to the company. Both of which presumably would not be beneficial to you all as a family, together or seperated.
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 4:59 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

We were supposed to return next year. My husband now insists he wants to extend the visa and remain until 2015. There are other issues but that is the matter in hand.

To be honest I couldn't care less if he did have to pay the relocation costs, given he's threatened to have me deported.
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 5:50 pm
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Exclamation Re: Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

Originally Posted by Bethenny View Post
We were supposed to return next year. My husband now insists he wants to extend the visa and remain until 2015. There are other issues but that is the matter in hand.

To be honest I couldn't care less if he did have to pay the relocation costs, given he's threatened to have me deported.

He can't 'extend' the visa. A new one has to be applied for (typically the L1/L2 visas are issued for 3 years and the maximum time one can be resident on these visas in the US is 7 years (then one either has had to apply for a Green card or to leave the US for at least one year before coming back to the US on new visas).

If your spouse (and his employer of course!) wants to get new L1/L2 visas he - and you - need to to travel with the children outside the US to be 'interviewed' at a US Embassy (obviously taking in new photos, passports and fees, application, documents etc.) similarly to how you obtained your original L1/L2 visas.

How is he going to force you to go to the Embassy if you don't want to co-operate? (I'm not even sure if the Embassy would issue L2 visas to the children if you objected?)

Does your teenager want to go back to the UK in time for the GCSE course? How old are your other children?

As mentioned before, it's best to seek legal advice from someone experienced in international custody issues. There is a list of solicitors/lawyers practising in the US and UK on the http://www.reunite.org website, or to at least phone the Reunite advice line in Leicester.

http://www.reunite.org/lawyers.asp

(one of the lawyers, Jeremy Morley wrote this article with the title "The Plight of the Expatriate Spouse" below)

http://www.international-divorce.com...atriate-Spouse

PS: Bethenny - I strongly advise you to clear your cookies if you are doing research online, your spouse may be suspicious and checking up on your PC/laptop etc.

Last edited by Englishmum; Oct 13th 2011 at 5:55 pm.
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 6:01 pm
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Exclamation Re: Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

Ooooh - it's good that you've kept your house in the UK:

http://www.international-divorce.com...for-Expats.htm

Good Luck!
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 6:04 pm
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Default Re: Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

Originally Posted by Englishmum View Post
If your spouse (and his employer of course!) wants to get new L1/L2 visas he - and you - need to to travel with the children outside the US to be 'interviewed' at a US Embassy (obviously taking in new photos, passports and fees, application, documents etc.) similarly to how you obtained your original L1/L2 visas.

How is he going to force you to go to the Embassy if you don't want to co-operate? (I'm not even sure if the Embassy would issue L2 visas to the children if you objected?)
You only need to attend the US Embassy if you leave the US and want to return to the US using the visa. You can legally apply and be granted your extenstion without having a new visa placed in your passport, the Embassy interview only becomes an issue once you leave US soil.
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 7:52 pm
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Question Re: Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

Originally Posted by N1cky View Post
You only need to attend the US Embassy if you leave the US and want to return to the US using the visa. You can legally apply and be granted your extenstion without having a new visa placed in your passport, the Embassy interview only becomes an issue once you leave US soil.
When did this happen?

Only about a year ago my friend (she's British, spouse Italian) and their daughter (born in the US) had to leave the US for their renewals of their L1 & L2 visas. However, they also applied for Advanced Parole at the same time; he travels overseas extensively for work and she likes to take their daughter to visit family in the UK and Italy two or three times a year.

(Other expat friends have also done so, but this was more than a year ago. I've had a GC for four years but the last time I renewed my L2 visa I had it done at the US Embassy in Grosvenor Square, London).

Ooops - I apologise; yes I recall that one can just have the approved paperwork for the renewed visa without a new physical visa to be issued in the passport. That was not an option we wanted to consider in case of a family emergency back in the UK and not being able to get back into the US. I think that every expat resident in the US should never assume that "oh, I have no need to leave the US on a trip" as one never knows what may happen - indeed I've seen on these boards the utter sadness of at least one expat who was unable to return to the UK for a parent's funeral.

We also applied for Advanced Parole - actually I remember having to go into Secondary inspection at Newark airport when I returned from a trip to the UK as I had the Advanced Parole form after we'd filed for the Green card.

Last edited by Englishmum; Oct 13th 2011 at 7:57 pm.
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Old Oct 14th 2011, 1:13 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

Originally Posted by Michael View Post
At the moment it may not but if he felt she may flee with the kids, he could possibly get an emergency court order to prohibit her from fleeing the jurisdiction with the kids until custody is decided. Then that might be considered kidnapping if she removed the kids from the jurisdiction.

The ultimate right of the female to decide what is best for their children has long passed. Logic would seem to dictate that the US should stay out of the family affairs of foreign nationals but would we say the same if he took off with the kids? We can't have it both ways.
By definition, you then change the facts of the case so that it would meet the legal definition. As the current status stands, I still don't think it meets the requirements of kidnapping.
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Old Oct 14th 2011, 3:38 am
  #40  
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Default Re: Can I bring my (british), kids home without my husband's permission?

Originally Posted by N1cky View Post
You only need to attend the US Embassy if you leave the US and want to return to the US using the visa. You can legally apply and be granted your extenstion without having a new visa placed in your passport, the Embassy interview only becomes an issue once you leave US soil.
But you end up being land locked without the visa in the passport, so if you left the US, would need to go to a US embassy to get the visa in the passport to return, which is handy for nothing else but emergency travel.

Either way, this issue goes way beyond a forum, divorce lawyer and immigration lawyer need to be talked too.

Good luck to the OP!
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