MostlyYank

I see the Britain/US thing in a different context. The waxing power was Germany which might well have forced the mantle passed to the US 'peacefully' by Britain out of self preservation.

You limeys, burning the White House

Pete

scrubbedexpat099

I never expected all this to happen quite so quickly, but that is the modern age.

Both the US and the UK have essentially de industrialised in my life time.

I certainly remember in the UK how we would be moving to a knowledge based industry, somebody forgot to mention that knowledge is more easily transferred than Factories.

No idea how it wall all end up, not well?

I have just been reading an article on the Guardian about Detroit, an extreme example but possibly a harbinger of things to come.

robin1234

In legitimate retaliation for the US raping and pillaging their way through Upper Canada and burning the legislature in York!

MostlyYank

Hey! We were liberating Canada. They needed saved from the propensity to say 'eh'

Boiler I never thought of it that way, 'de-industrializing'. I suspect the faded might of Detroit will rise from the ashes one day.

Pete

robin1234

But Germany was never really more than a European power, whereas Britain was the preeminent world power from 1815 to 1914 (very approximately) and the US was the up and coming successor to Britain, in terms of industry, trade, sea power, foreign investment etc., from the late nineteenth century on. So I see the US and Britain as going head to head, Germany just being a flash in the pan. Why didn't UK and US fight? Because Churchill gave the keys to the US in WWII ... He had to, in order to preserve Britain. For instance, gave the US strategic military bases, including Newfoundland, Bermuda, Britain itself. Gave the US the leading role in the Iranian oil fields, etc.

robin1234

Fortunately failed ignominiously (remember the Battle of Crysler's Farm!)

scrubbedexpat099

I do not, it was a function of its time which has passed.

Without a command economy why would anyone want to go there?

I have to stop reading the Guardian, it is too depressing, there was also an article on South Wales which I have family connection to.

This was focused on the Amazon Warehouse paying minimum wages and how little there is available near by. Hardly anything left.

Amazon were essentially bribed to go there and they knew they had access to a lot of desperate workers. Also pointed out that for every 1 subsidised Amazon jobs 4 retail jobs are lost.

If you look at the decline and fall of previous empires, there are certain common traits.

civilservant

Such as? I'm not asking to be a pain, I'm genuinely interested.

robin1234

Decadence, vomiting before dinner parties, paying Danegeld to barbarians, etc.

scrubbedexpat099

Ohh dear, I feel like this is an exam question.

For example:

British Empire peaked late 1800's, went into decline and was busted by WW1.

Rome did the same sort of thing over a much longer time.

US seems to have peaked about 30 years ago?

I remember reading that India was actually a financial loss to the British Empire, and now we have a similar scenario with the US squandering wealth overseas for no obvious purpose whilst at the same time denuding itself of the activities that made it a world power in the first place.

All four have something in common, they accumulated a lot of wealth that the process was relatively slow, USSR for example did not so it was more boom and bust.

Bust tends to hit the little people hardest, what will be interesting is to see how that will impact our modern States. There is a lot of built up expectations.

One of the things I can see is a heavy dose of inflation to rob those with savings. It has to come from somewhere.

scrubbedexpat099

There is plenty of Danegeld, they just change the name!

robin1234

Exactly! Decadence too ...

MostlyYank

I'll add, growth in synch with prosperity, linked to it, once the growth dies down & systems rigidize you have an expensive structure designed for that growth but without the increasing income to cover it.

The US system was designed to keep flexibility but human nature being what it is, that flexibility is long gone regardless of intent.

ROTFLMAO!!

Pete

MostlyYank

Btw Robin we are largely in agreement re: the US and Britain.

Pete

scrubbedexpat099

You can sort of see a mini version of that in Companies, plenty of examples where with each generation the has been an erosion.

Judging from an article I read Tesco are going through it, being squuzed by the Aldi's at the bottom and the Waitrose's at the top.

Inevitable as the middle ground decreases.