buying house in Florida
Nov 22nd 2003, 4:22 pm
#1
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buying house in Florida
Is it possible for a British citizen to buy a house in FL? I am not going to stay there forever, I just want to have a second home for escaping the winter here. Does anyone have such experience?
Nov 22nd 2003, 7:24 pm
#2
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As I understand it - yes BUT from research I have done recently:
You have to get a taxpayer identification number from Internal Revenue BEFORE being able to purchase.
It does not make getting a visa any easier or harder - except that the port of entry immigration officer MIGHT think you are trying to settle permanantly if you tell him you own a house - and then deny you entry. More likely if you visit often and stay the max permitted time.
You may have to pay US tax on your worldwide earnings if you stay in US more than so many days per year - even though you are "non-resident".
The costs of buying a house in Florida are high - especially in Central Florida.
The costs of running a house are high - you cannot turn off your aircon or empty your pool when you are not there so your electricity charges will be high.
(If you turn off your aircon then everything may go mouldy - if you empty your in-ground pool it will be forced out of the ground by water pressure or at least be damaged.)
The grass grows fast and MUST be cut frequently.
At least you can get your property managed, pest control done, grass cut etc - but this may cost you about $300 a month.
Property taxes are fairly high in some parts , especially Orlando area. If you rent out your property on anything less than 6 month tenancies you have to buy a house in a more expensive short term rental zone - and pay extra taxes and licenses.
Do not believe the number of rental weeks that agents promise to get you - it will probably not be as high as they say.
You cannot easily get a normal Florida drivers license now -so you will have to have an expensive rental car or pay high insurance rates and have car licensing hassle every visit.
Why not just rent a house when you want one? I know its not quite the same but I have come to the conclusion its a lot less problematical and probably cheaper.
Hope this is some help - sorry to pour cold water on your idea.
You have to get a taxpayer identification number from Internal Revenue BEFORE being able to purchase.
It does not make getting a visa any easier or harder - except that the port of entry immigration officer MIGHT think you are trying to settle permanantly if you tell him you own a house - and then deny you entry. More likely if you visit often and stay the max permitted time.
You may have to pay US tax on your worldwide earnings if you stay in US more than so many days per year - even though you are "non-resident".
The costs of buying a house in Florida are high - especially in Central Florida.
The costs of running a house are high - you cannot turn off your aircon or empty your pool when you are not there so your electricity charges will be high.
(If you turn off your aircon then everything may go mouldy - if you empty your in-ground pool it will be forced out of the ground by water pressure or at least be damaged.)
The grass grows fast and MUST be cut frequently.
At least you can get your property managed, pest control done, grass cut etc - but this may cost you about $300 a month.
Property taxes are fairly high in some parts , especially Orlando area. If you rent out your property on anything less than 6 month tenancies you have to buy a house in a more expensive short term rental zone - and pay extra taxes and licenses.
Do not believe the number of rental weeks that agents promise to get you - it will probably not be as high as they say.
You cannot easily get a normal Florida drivers license now -so you will have to have an expensive rental car or pay high insurance rates and have car licensing hassle every visit.
Why not just rent a house when you want one? I know its not quite the same but I have come to the conclusion its a lot less problematical and probably cheaper.
Hope this is some help - sorry to pour cold water on your idea.
Nov 22nd 2003, 7:59 pm
#3
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Thank for your water!
I also heard that after 11th Sep, there are much more restrictions. I also feel renting a house is more flexible and I can enjoy different parts of the country.
Do the housing prices in FL rise like here in UK?
Do other states also have houses for short rent? I know FL has many but I am not sure about CA, HI and NY.
How many days stay per year would make me liable to paying tax?
I also heard that after 11th Sep, there are much more restrictions. I also feel renting a house is more flexible and I can enjoy different parts of the country.
Do the housing prices in FL rise like here in UK?
Do other states also have houses for short rent? I know FL has many but I am not sure about CA, HI and NY.
How many days stay per year would make me liable to paying tax?
Last edited by quickg; Nov 22nd 2003 at 8:02 pm.
Nov 22nd 2003, 8:34 pm
#4
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No - houses in Fl do not rise like houses in UK - but do seem to go up maybe 10% a year as the cost of building new houses also rises.
However many buyers seem to want NEW houses not "re-sales" There are a lot of houses for sale at any one time - I have seen a figure of 14% of all houses quoted.
You have to remember that many people who buy houses in Fl are retiring age and don't always live too long in their houses before they either pass away or go into a retirement home. So the house is for sale again.
Buyers are very fussy in Fl - they may want a large lot, a fancy screened pool which is south facing, cathedral ceilings, double garage, fancy window treatments, upgraded this that and the other, a lake at the rear and not another house,....the list is endless.
As far as being in the USA for tax - try understanding this:
31 days during the current year, and
183 days during the 3-year period that includes the current year and the 2 years immediately before that, counting:
All the days you were present in the current year, and
1/3 of the days you were present in the first year before the current year, and
1/6 of the days you were present in the second year before the current year.
I am not joking about this formula!
so go to the fount of all knowledge:
http://www.irs.gov/faqs/page/0,,id=15930,00.html
However many buyers seem to want NEW houses not "re-sales" There are a lot of houses for sale at any one time - I have seen a figure of 14% of all houses quoted.
You have to remember that many people who buy houses in Fl are retiring age and don't always live too long in their houses before they either pass away or go into a retirement home. So the house is for sale again.
Buyers are very fussy in Fl - they may want a large lot, a fancy screened pool which is south facing, cathedral ceilings, double garage, fancy window treatments, upgraded this that and the other, a lake at the rear and not another house,....the list is endless.
As far as being in the USA for tax - try understanding this:
31 days during the current year, and
183 days during the 3-year period that includes the current year and the 2 years immediately before that, counting:
All the days you were present in the current year, and
1/3 of the days you were present in the first year before the current year, and
1/6 of the days you were present in the second year before the current year.
I am not joking about this formula!
so go to the fount of all knowledge:
http://www.irs.gov/faqs/page/0,,id=15930,00.html
Nov 22nd 2003, 8:39 pm
#5
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It seems I better go to the Caribbean! 
Nov 22nd 2003, 9:25 pm
#6
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Caribbean -????
You must be kidding !!
At least in Fl and USA your house is pretty safe apart from the odd cyclone.
Those 3rd world countries your house is likely to be ransacked as soon as you leave it - probably before you get home to UK.
And then there is always the prospect of revolutions - unlikely in USA - they had one already some years ago.
No - stick to Florida - good value - safe - speak English - easy to drive to other parts of the USA or Canada - great for going on cruise ships for a vacation to the Caribbean via Fort Lauderdale, Port Canaveral, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville etc.
Also easy and cheapish for frequent flights from UK.
Just be aware that you will be paying multiple taxes from day one when you arrive in Fl.
Buying the house is only the start of the paying out.
First taxes:
car rental
Airport access
Advance tire disposal
Advance battery disposal
Sales tax
toll road getting away from the airport maybe.
You even pay tax on orange juice - at 17.5% but its hidden in the price - its to promote Florida oranges.
If you rent out your house you will pay tax every year to the County on the furniture in the house - a tangible asset used in business - maybe around $350 to $400 a year.
Then there is the property tax on your house - maybe around $3,000 p.a.
Also on STR houses - 12% sales/tourism tax. probably no income tax on your rental income however as you will probably lose money every year unless you really go hard at the lettings .
You must be kidding !!
At least in Fl and USA your house is pretty safe apart from the odd cyclone.
Those 3rd world countries your house is likely to be ransacked as soon as you leave it - probably before you get home to UK.
And then there is always the prospect of revolutions - unlikely in USA - they had one already some years ago.
No - stick to Florida - good value - safe - speak English - easy to drive to other parts of the USA or Canada - great for going on cruise ships for a vacation to the Caribbean via Fort Lauderdale, Port Canaveral, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville etc.
Also easy and cheapish for frequent flights from UK.
Just be aware that you will be paying multiple taxes from day one when you arrive in Fl.
Buying the house is only the start of the paying out.
First taxes:
car rental
Airport access
Advance tire disposal
Advance battery disposal
Sales tax
toll road getting away from the airport maybe.
You even pay tax on orange juice - at 17.5% but its hidden in the price - its to promote Florida oranges.
If you rent out your house you will pay tax every year to the County on the furniture in the house - a tangible asset used in business - maybe around $350 to $400 a year.
Then there is the property tax on your house - maybe around $3,000 p.a.
Also on STR houses - 12% sales/tourism tax. probably no income tax on your rental income however as you will probably lose money every year unless you really go hard at the lettings .
Nov 23rd 2003, 3:31 am
#7
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,446
Originally posted by JeanDupont
..... First taxes:
car rental
Airport access
Advance tire disposal
Advance battery disposal
Sales tax
toll road getting away from the airport maybe. ....
..... First taxes:
car rental
Airport access
Advance tire disposal
Advance battery disposal
Sales tax
toll road getting away from the airport maybe. ....
If you buy a house in Florida, or any other state for that matter you will need a local accountant to prepare your taxes for you. A good one may charge you a couple of hundred dollars to prepae your return, but it is well worth the cost, and is a good "insurance policy" in case the IRS decides to audit your tax return.
Nov 23rd 2003, 1:00 pm
#8
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4
I don't think Bahamas or BVI would have the problems you mentioned. They are not Cuba! They also speak English and they are tax havens. The only problme is the living cost. Buying cars or other goods would incur some heavy taxes. Anyway, I think I would rent a house in FL only when it is necessary. I won't stay in the US for too long since I don't want the taxman to chase me.
Last edited by quickg; Nov 23rd 2003 at 1:06 pm.
Nov 23rd 2003, 8:49 pm
#9
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Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Yeeha, US
Posts: 739
Only people after careers (money?) emigrate to the US. If you got spare cash the last thing you want to do is take it to america to buy a holiday home. the US is synonimous with taxes. It would be wiser if you got a job in the states and bought your dream home on a mortgage rather than buying as a tourist.
other than jamaica and cuba, i think other caribbean countries are safe.
other than jamaica and cuba, i think other caribbean countries are safe.
Nov 24th 2003, 3:41 am
#10
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Originally posted by JeanDupont
As I understand it - yes BUT from research I have done recently:
You have to get a taxpayer identification number from Internal Revenue BEFORE being able to purchase.
It does not make getting a visa any easier or harder - except that the port of entry immigration officer MIGHT think you are trying to settle permanantly if you tell him you own a house - and then deny you entry. More likely if you visit often and stay the max permitted time.
You may have to pay US tax on your worldwide earnings if you stay in US more than so many days per year - even though you are "non-resident".
The costs of buying a house in Florida are high - especially in Central Florida.
The costs of running a house are high - you cannot turn off your aircon or empty your pool when you are not there so your electricity charges will be high.
(If you turn off your aircon then everything may go mouldy - if you empty your in-ground pool it will be forced out of the ground by water pressure or at least be damaged.)
The grass grows fast and MUST be cut frequently.
At least you can get your property managed, pest control done, grass cut etc - but this may cost you about $300 a month.
Property taxes are fairly high in some parts , especially Orlando area. If you rent out your property on anything less than 6 month tenancies you have to buy a house in a more expensive short term rental zone - and pay extra taxes and licenses.
Do not believe the number of rental weeks that agents promise to get you - it will probably not be as high as they say.
You cannot easily get a normal Florida drivers license now -so you will have to have an expensive rental car or pay high insurance rates and have car licensing hassle every visit.
Why not just rent a house when you want one? I know its not quite the same but I have come to the conclusion its a lot less problematical and probably cheaper.
Hope this is some help - sorry to pour cold water on your idea.
As I understand it - yes BUT from research I have done recently:
You have to get a taxpayer identification number from Internal Revenue BEFORE being able to purchase.
It does not make getting a visa any easier or harder - except that the port of entry immigration officer MIGHT think you are trying to settle permanantly if you tell him you own a house - and then deny you entry. More likely if you visit often and stay the max permitted time.
You may have to pay US tax on your worldwide earnings if you stay in US more than so many days per year - even though you are "non-resident".
The costs of buying a house in Florida are high - especially in Central Florida.
The costs of running a house are high - you cannot turn off your aircon or empty your pool when you are not there so your electricity charges will be high.
(If you turn off your aircon then everything may go mouldy - if you empty your in-ground pool it will be forced out of the ground by water pressure or at least be damaged.)
The grass grows fast and MUST be cut frequently.
At least you can get your property managed, pest control done, grass cut etc - but this may cost you about $300 a month.
Property taxes are fairly high in some parts , especially Orlando area. If you rent out your property on anything less than 6 month tenancies you have to buy a house in a more expensive short term rental zone - and pay extra taxes and licenses.
Do not believe the number of rental weeks that agents promise to get you - it will probably not be as high as they say.
You cannot easily get a normal Florida drivers license now -so you will have to have an expensive rental car or pay high insurance rates and have car licensing hassle every visit.
Why not just rent a house when you want one? I know its not quite the same but I have come to the conclusion its a lot less problematical and probably cheaper.
Hope this is some help - sorry to pour cold water on your idea.
2) True
3) Wrong.. does not apply to non resident aliens
4) depends what you consider expensive
5) pretty accurate but you can save on A/C cost by fitting a Humidistat
6)aircon then everything may go mouldy TRUE
empty your in-ground pool it will be forced out of the ground by water pressure or at least be damaged....Bit of an old wives tale
7)If you are letting the property.... about right .
8) If you rent out your property on anything less than 6 month tenancies you have to buy a house in a more expensive short term rental zone - and pay extra taxes and licenses..30 days in most areas is considered non short term...
9) VERY TRUE
10) only worth buying a car if you are staying for 6 months at a time
11
Nov 24th 2003, 3:49 am
#11
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: buying house in Florida
Originally posted by quickg
Is it possible for a British citizen to buy a house in FL? I am not going to stay there forever, I just want to have a second home for escaping the winter here. Does anyone have such experience?
Is it possible for a British citizen to buy a house in FL? I am not going to stay there forever, I just want to have a second home for escaping the winter here. Does anyone have such experience?
Nov 24th 2003, 4:02 am
#12
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
First taxes:
car rental
Airport access
Advance tire disposal
Advance battery disposal
Sales tax
toll road getting away from the airport maybe.
car rental
Airport access
Advance tire disposal
Advance battery disposal
Sales tax
toll road getting away from the airport maybe.
Airport access... same applies
Advance tire disposal
Advance battery disposal bit of a scam same as the one in the UK ..charging Road tax on rental cars
Sales tax 6%-7% what do you pay 17.5%
toll road getting away from the airport maybe.
$2 or $3 when you arrive and the same when you leave not that bad..well worth it to me.. to get to Tampa airport for me now takes 40 mins ..used to be 2 hours of heavy traffic..cost $2.25
Last edited by ray6; Nov 24th 2003 at 4:05 am.
Nov 24th 2003, 7:38 am
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Bad Advice
Ray 6 - you are obviously rather upset with me - multiple posts contradicting me...........you must know a lot more than me, "senior member" and all that..................
I won't waste much time on this but I will point out that the tax rules have changed on Nov 3rd 2003 and I quote: ( he is only a practising real estate lawyer - what would he know?)
"And in the future, foreign nationals buying U.S. real property will need to be counseled and assisted, as a standard part of the purchase and closing process, in obtaining an ITIN from the IRS at the time the property is first purchased. Because planning ahead is more than just a wise admonition; it is indeed the name of the game in coping with the new IRS rules.
Raymond J. Bowie. is a Naples area attorney and civil-law notary, Board Certified in Real Estate Law, who has practiced law for 23 years in Florida, Virginia and New York, specializing in real estate transactions, representing buyers and sellers in contracts, closings, title insurance, tax-deferred exchanges, land trusts and mortgage financing. He is also a licensed real estate broker, mortgage broker and real estate instructor. Bowie invites real estate-related questions or suggestions for columns to be addressed to him, c/o Real Estate Editor, Naples Daily News, 1075 Central Avenue, Naples, Fla. 34102. "
You can get the full info from
http://www.realtor.org/cipshome.nsf/News/IRS_Rules
As far as swimming pools are concerned I myself would not take the risk - if you don't maintain it the neighbours won't be too happy with a pool full of green water and frogs etc. - and if you empty it then it may well crack up depending on the ground water pressure locally. Could be $20,000 for a new pool.........answer is buy a house without a pool I guess.
As far as Florida law (Florida Statute 125.0104) is concerned this is the definition:
"Transient accommodations are living quarters in a hotel, apartment-hotel, motel, resort motel, apartment-motel, rooming house, trailer camp, cabin, condominium, cooperatively-owned apartment, multiple- unit structure, mobile home, trailer, single family dwelling, beach house, or cottage THAT ARE RENTED FOR A PERIOD OF SIX MONTHS OR LESS."
In addition - if you rent your house out illegally (even to friends and family) how are you going to hide the money? Pay it into the bank and either the I R in UK or the IRS in USA will see it if you have an audit - then you will face heavy penalties and could lose your house. Its just not worth it as far as I can see with the new tax evasion and money laundering laws.
I personally would not encourage other members to commit criminal offences on a public forum, but then I am not a "senior member".
If you are going to publicly tell members they are wrong then at least be accurate on matters of fact. I am always prepared to corrected if it is warranted.
Rather than continue this on an open forum please feel free to email me. [email protected]
I won't waste much time on this but I will point out that the tax rules have changed on Nov 3rd 2003 and I quote: ( he is only a practising real estate lawyer - what would he know?)
"And in the future, foreign nationals buying U.S. real property will need to be counseled and assisted, as a standard part of the purchase and closing process, in obtaining an ITIN from the IRS at the time the property is first purchased. Because planning ahead is more than just a wise admonition; it is indeed the name of the game in coping with the new IRS rules.
Raymond J. Bowie. is a Naples area attorney and civil-law notary, Board Certified in Real Estate Law, who has practiced law for 23 years in Florida, Virginia and New York, specializing in real estate transactions, representing buyers and sellers in contracts, closings, title insurance, tax-deferred exchanges, land trusts and mortgage financing. He is also a licensed real estate broker, mortgage broker and real estate instructor. Bowie invites real estate-related questions or suggestions for columns to be addressed to him, c/o Real Estate Editor, Naples Daily News, 1075 Central Avenue, Naples, Fla. 34102. "
You can get the full info from
http://www.realtor.org/cipshome.nsf/News/IRS_Rules
As far as swimming pools are concerned I myself would not take the risk - if you don't maintain it the neighbours won't be too happy with a pool full of green water and frogs etc. - and if you empty it then it may well crack up depending on the ground water pressure locally. Could be $20,000 for a new pool.........answer is buy a house without a pool I guess.
As far as Florida law (Florida Statute 125.0104) is concerned this is the definition:
"Transient accommodations are living quarters in a hotel, apartment-hotel, motel, resort motel, apartment-motel, rooming house, trailer camp, cabin, condominium, cooperatively-owned apartment, multiple- unit structure, mobile home, trailer, single family dwelling, beach house, or cottage THAT ARE RENTED FOR A PERIOD OF SIX MONTHS OR LESS."
In addition - if you rent your house out illegally (even to friends and family) how are you going to hide the money? Pay it into the bank and either the I R in UK or the IRS in USA will see it if you have an audit - then you will face heavy penalties and could lose your house. Its just not worth it as far as I can see with the new tax evasion and money laundering laws.
I personally would not encourage other members to commit criminal offences on a public forum, but then I am not a "senior member".
If you are going to publicly tell members they are wrong then at least be accurate on matters of fact. I am always prepared to corrected if it is warranted.
Rather than continue this on an open forum please feel free to email me. [email protected]
Last edited by JeanDupont; Nov 24th 2003 at 8:03 am.
Nov 24th 2003, 4:58 pm
#14
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: Bad Advice
Far from being 'upset' I an very grateful for the ITIN info... I was upto date for a property sale to an alien 3 months ago.. but as you say this new rule only came in this month.. this morning I called a couple of realtors and none of them knew about it..but then I am not in a tourist area..
The swimming pool thing is a mute point really as all HOA will not allow you to have a pool in dis-repair and there is no need to drain a pool in this climate anyway....As an aside I have seen a pool pop-out but this was caused by a sink hole in the property being repaired by pumping cement /concrete underground to fill the void, except in this case they pressure pumped so much underground the fill pushed the pool up.. but the owner got a brand new pool and deck courtesy of the builder..
your looking at the wrong statute regarding short term rental this is what I think you wanted:
Florida Statute 509.013(4) defines "Public lodging establishment" as any unit, group of units, dwelling, building, or group of buildings within a single complex of buildings, which is rented to guests more than three times in a calendar year for periods of less than 30 days or one calendar month, whichever is less, or which is advertised or held out to the public as a place regularly rented to guests.A resort dwelling is any individually or collectively owned one-family, two-family, three-family, or four-family dwelling house or dwelling unit which is rented three times in a calendar year for periods of 30 days or one calendar month, whichever is less, or which is advertised or held out to the public as a place regularly rented for periods of less than 30 days or one calendar month, whichever is less.more than 175 units and is restricted to counties within one district.
I live in a county with a no short term rental permitted.. so what is permitted and is done by owners, they have to rent out for a minimum of 30 days...of course sometimes customers only stay for 21 days so the property has to be left M/T for another 9 days
which in reality is the same as normal allowed short term rental...
Of course they have no interest in customers looking for just one week or two..but of course over the winter months Nov-April..the snowbirds are down here from the north and they normally stay around 3 months, if fact the house next door to myself has a snowbird in now who is staying right thru to April..
I very carefully did not mention friend and relatives paying rent so you read something that was not there...your comment about "commit criminal offences" and the snidey remark about senior members was not really called for...
I have now read that link you provided and can find no mention of an ITIN requirement for PURCHASING a property..you have always needed one for selling and they have changed that a bit
can you point the reference out to me...
The swimming pool thing is a mute point really as all HOA will not allow you to have a pool in dis-repair and there is no need to drain a pool in this climate anyway....As an aside I have seen a pool pop-out but this was caused by a sink hole in the property being repaired by pumping cement /concrete underground to fill the void, except in this case they pressure pumped so much underground the fill pushed the pool up.. but the owner got a brand new pool and deck courtesy of the builder..
your looking at the wrong statute regarding short term rental this is what I think you wanted:
Florida Statute 509.013(4) defines "Public lodging establishment" as any unit, group of units, dwelling, building, or group of buildings within a single complex of buildings, which is rented to guests more than three times in a calendar year for periods of less than 30 days or one calendar month, whichever is less, or which is advertised or held out to the public as a place regularly rented to guests.A resort dwelling is any individually or collectively owned one-family, two-family, three-family, or four-family dwelling house or dwelling unit which is rented three times in a calendar year for periods of 30 days or one calendar month, whichever is less, or which is advertised or held out to the public as a place regularly rented for periods of less than 30 days or one calendar month, whichever is less.more than 175 units and is restricted to counties within one district.
I live in a county with a no short term rental permitted.. so what is permitted and is done by owners, they have to rent out for a minimum of 30 days...of course sometimes customers only stay for 21 days so the property has to be left M/T for another 9 days
which in reality is the same as normal allowed short term rental...
Of course they have no interest in customers looking for just one week or two..but of course over the winter months Nov-April..the snowbirds are down here from the north and they normally stay around 3 months, if fact the house next door to myself has a snowbird in now who is staying right thru to April..
I very carefully did not mention friend and relatives paying rent so you read something that was not there...your comment about "commit criminal offences" and the snidey remark about senior members was not really called for...
I have now read that link you provided and can find no mention of an ITIN requirement for PURCHASING a property..you have always needed one for selling and they have changed that a bit
can you point the reference out to me...
Last edited by ray6; Nov 25th 2003 at 3:41 am.
Nov 24th 2003, 6:42 pm
#15
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,446
Re: Bad Advice
Originally posted by ray6
Far from being 'upset' I an very grateful...... your comment about "commit criminal offences" and the snidey remark about senior members was not really called for...
Far from being 'upset' I an very grateful...... your comment about "commit criminal offences" and the snidey remark about senior members was not really called for...
