Brazilian family intends to sue police
Jul 25th 2005, 11:12 pm
#151
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,535
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by Taffyles
I don't know about anyone else but I'm really glad that we are debating the police action taken in the case of one man killed by mistake, and not debating the lack of action by the police in the case of a trainfull of people, killed or hurt in a suicide bombing. Much has been said about implications- if the implications of this are that the police will hesitate in future and a suicide bomber gets through and does his worst, it will have been an even greater tragedy. Thankfully the police aren't changing their "shoot to kill" policy and hopefully the family will get nowhere if they sue.
Ahem, I consider myself to be among the human rights bunch. I also understand how a cop, armed and with orders to shoot to kill if he/she thinks someone is a bomber, chasing someone who not only ran but who ran into a Tube station, under these circumstances, under pressure, split second decision, did what he did. And I don't suppose he feels very good about it tonight. It's horrible all round.
What I was talking about today was that"
a) It should never have come to that.
b) The implications for British society are appalling
Last edited by Lion in Winter; Jul 25th 2005 at 11:16 pm.
Jul 25th 2005, 11:12 pm
#152
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,535
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by AmerLisa
I'm a moron as well. 
Glad to meet you.
Glad to meet you.
Jul 25th 2005, 11:13 pm
#153
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 22,105
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by Manc
Fine him £50 for getting on the train without a ticket and then deport him back to Brazil for being an illegal alien.
Jul 25th 2005, 11:14 pm
#154
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 22,105
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
I'm buying all my fellow morons drinks. Want one?
Jul 25th 2005, 11:17 pm
#155
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,535
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by AmerLisa
picking out curtains with hubby is a very "lovely" job.
Jul 25th 2005, 11:23 pm
#156
Back Again
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Virtual Reality
Posts: 10,831
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by strim
It is a tough job and someone had to make a tough decision, but at the end of the day the police made a mistake, killed an innocent man and need to take some accountability.
this guy worked ..what if he sent much of his pay check back home to support his family, he could have been the main breadwinner who's going to pay for the funeral? the upkeep of his gravestone? things that all add up to a lot of money, especially if you are already struggling.....we know nothing about this man and the knock on effect his family will experience because of his killing....having said that I don't think they should get ridiculous amounts like several millions etc this has to be be done properly..no sleazy lawyers allowed
Jul 25th 2005, 11:29 pm
#157
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,535
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by Celtic_Angel
I totally agree, his family do need to be compensated ...whether the British taxpayers like it or not...he was killed by a police officer who's intention was to protect these same tax-payers,
this guy worked ..what if he sent much of his pay check back home to support his family, he could have been the main breadwinner who's going to pay for the funeral? the upkeep of his gravestone? things that all add up to a lot of money, especially if you are already struggling.....we know nothing about this man and the knock on effect his family will experience because of his killing....having said that I don't think they should get ridiculous amounts like several millions etc this has to be be done properly..no sleazy lawyers allowed
this guy worked ..what if he sent much of his pay check back home to support his family, he could have been the main breadwinner who's going to pay for the funeral? the upkeep of his gravestone? things that all add up to a lot of money, especially if you are already struggling.....we know nothing about this man and the knock on effect his family will experience because of his killing....having said that I don't think they should get ridiculous amounts like several millions etc this has to be be done properly..no sleazy lawyers allowed
Here's some of it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4716141.stm
Jul 25th 2005, 11:33 pm
#158
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,296
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
I said this two days ago, on another thread:
I meant it.
What I was talking about today was that"
a) It should never have come to that.
b) The implications for British society are appalling
I meant it.
What I was talking about today was that"
a) It should never have come to that.
b) The implications for British society are appalling
Great minds.... (most of the time
)a-If only the man had stopped...the worst that could have happened would be he would have been found out as overstaying his visa and possibly working illegally and mayb deported. If only he had run into anywhere but a train station...if only he hadn't jumped on the train and grabbed a passenger...it wouldn't have come to that.
b-British society (at least in London and other major cities) changed with the emergence of suicide bombers in the country. What implications do you mean?
Last edited by Taffyles; Jul 25th 2005 at 11:35 pm.
Jul 25th 2005, 11:38 pm
#159
Failed Expat ;-)
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: (Great) Britain
Posts: 7,392
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by Taffyles
Great minds.... (most of the time )
a-If only the man had stopped...the worst that could have happened would be he would have been found out as overstaying his visa and possibly working illegally and mayb deported. If only he had run into anywhere but a train station...if only he hadn't jumped on the train and grabbed a passenger...it wouldn't have come to that.
b-British society (at least in London and other major cities) changed with the emergence of suicide bombers in the country. What implications do you mean?
)a-If only the man had stopped...the worst that could have happened would be he would have been found out as overstaying his visa and possibly working illegally and mayb deported. If only he had run into anywhere but a train station...if only he hadn't jumped on the train and grabbed a passenger...it wouldn't have come to that.
b-British society (at least in London and other major cities) changed with the emergence of suicide bombers in the country. What implications do you mean?
Maybe it will make people think twice before running from the police. That's a major blow to society for criminals, but I don't see how it affects the average Brit.
Jul 25th 2005, 11:40 pm
#160
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,296
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by Celtic_Angel
I totally agree, his family do need to be compensated ...whether the British taxpayers like it or not...he was killed by a police officer who's intention was to protect these same tax-payers,
this guy worked ..what if he sent much of his pay check back home to support his family, he could have been the main breadwinner who's going to pay for the funeral? the upkeep of his gravestone? things that all add up to a lot of money, especially if you are already struggling.....we know nothing about this man and the knock on effect his family will experience because of his killing....having said that I don't think they should get ridiculous amounts like several millions etc this has to be be done properly..no sleazy lawyers allowed
this guy worked ..what if he sent much of his pay check back home to support his family, he could have been the main breadwinner who's going to pay for the funeral? the upkeep of his gravestone? things that all add up to a lot of money, especially if you are already struggling.....we know nothing about this man and the knock on effect his family will experience because of his killing....having said that I don't think they should get ridiculous amounts like several millions etc this has to be be done properly..no sleazy lawyers allowed
I have no problem with police compensation for wrongful death but suing the police involved I would really object to and compensating for loss of earnings etc...he was working illegally.
Jul 25th 2005, 11:45 pm
#161
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,535
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by Taffyles
Great minds.... (most of the time )
a-If only the man had stopped...the worst that could have happened would be he would have been found out as overstaying his visa and possibly working illegally and mayb deported. If only he had run into anywhere but a train station...if only he hadn't jumped on the train and grabbed a passenger...it wouldn't have come to that.
b-British society (at least in London and other major cities) changed with the emergence of suicide bombers in the country. What implications do you mean?
)a-If only the man had stopped...the worst that could have happened would be he would have been found out as overstaying his visa and possibly working illegally and mayb deported. If only he had run into anywhere but a train station...if only he hadn't jumped on the train and grabbed a passenger...it wouldn't have come to that.
b-British society (at least in London and other major cities) changed with the emergence of suicide bombers in the country. What implications do you mean?
a) I think we've beaten this one into the ground. My contention was that since they had already followed him all the way from bloody Streatham, or wherever it was, they might have considered stopping him before he went into a Tube station and the whole thing became a dire emergency.
b) No, not the bombs, as such. London has been bombed before. I mean the change to living in a society where it is considered acceptable, normal even, to have armed police shooting people. It's so easy. Look at the furious arguments on BE alone over the last few days - from an apparently peaceable, tolerant society. Hasn't the UK always prided itself on not having a police force armed to the teeth, with the right to shoot. I'm afraid I see it as another foot on a very slippery slope.
Last edited by Lion in Winter; Jul 25th 2005 at 11:48 pm. Reason: apparently I can't spell any more
Jul 25th 2005, 11:47 pm
#162
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,535
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by dbickle
Maybe it will make people think twice before running from the police. That's a major blow to society for criminals, but I don't see how it affects the average Brit.
Jul 25th 2005, 11:49 pm
#163
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 22,105
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by dbickle
Maybe it will make people think twice before running from the police. That's a major blow to society for criminals, but I don't see how it affects the average Brit.
Jul 25th 2005, 11:50 pm
#164
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 22,105
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
a) I think we've beaten this one into the ground. My contention was that since they had already followed him all the way from bloody Streatham, or wherever it was, they might have considered stopping him before he went into a Tube station and the whole thing became a dire emergency.
b) No, not the bombs, as such. London has been bombed before. I mean the change to living in a society where it is considered acceptable, normal even, to have armed police shooting people. It's so easy. Look at the furious arguments on BE alone over the last few days - from an apparently peaceable, tolerant society. Hasn't the UK always prided itself on not having a police force armed to the teeth, with the right to shoot. I'm afraid I see it as another foot on a very slippery slope.
b) No, not the bombs, as such. London has been bombed before. I mean the change to living in a society where it is considered acceptable, normal even, to have armed police shooting people. It's so easy. Look at the furious arguments on BE alone over the last few days - from an apparently peaceable, tolerant society. Hasn't the UK always prided itself on not having a police force armed to the teeth, with the right to shoot. I'm afraid I see it as another foot on a very slippery slope.
Jul 25th 2005, 11:52 pm
#165
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bralian family intends to sue police
as I said before..
Police officers get a split second to make life or death decisions based on limited information. Lawyers and everyone else get days months and even years to debate on what could should and did happen based on information not neccessarilly available to the officers at the material time.
It is a simple fact that based on the security alert at the time the officers were likely under orders to prevent another bombing anyway possible...even the use of lethal force. No situation is cut and dried.
I also notice noone (those that I read) have contemplated the effects on the officers that they now have to deal with the life long knowledge they killed someone innocent or not.
I will not pass comment on the officers actions as I was not there and I have no real knowledge of the situation as do none here. But quite frankly you should all be thankful that there are people willing to take the personal risks and consequences suffered in attempting to keep everyone else safe.
Police officers get a split second to make life or death decisions based on limited information. Lawyers and everyone else get days months and even years to debate on what could should and did happen based on information not neccessarilly available to the officers at the material time.
It is a simple fact that based on the security alert at the time the officers were likely under orders to prevent another bombing anyway possible...even the use of lethal force. No situation is cut and dried.
I also notice noone (those that I read) have contemplated the effects on the officers that they now have to deal with the life long knowledge they killed someone innocent or not.
I will not pass comment on the officers actions as I was not there and I have no real knowledge of the situation as do none here. But quite frankly you should all be thankful that there are people willing to take the personal risks and consequences suffered in attempting to keep everyone else safe.