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Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Old Dec 30th 2005, 3:04 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by franc11s
Probably another contraversial topic...
The age of velvet fascism dawns, ably assisted by yours truly with his now fully developing paranoia. What exactly are you scared of here? There is no increasing threat to “you and your family” yet you seem petrified. The world we live is as safe as or safer than it has ever been. What has actually made you like this? Your children are no more likely to be molested by an outsider or blown up by a bomb yet you feel the obligation to allow big brother to spy on you and otherwise restrict your civil liberties, safe in the erroneous belief that you are one of them rather than one of the others. You are sadly mistaken, my friend!

The “do-gooders” (as you so quaintly dismiss them) are bothered because they look beyond their own immediate petty interests to the bigger picture; it is not just about me but about the society we all live in They defend freedoms not to defend the guilty but to defend the innocent. And they see that government is no longer representative of the people but rather of a very small elite and that it cannot be trusted to use the information it gathers for the good of the people but instead, if left unfettered, will use it for its own benefit in consolidating its own power.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 3:21 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Ray
We used flammenwerfer to keep them warm....
Is that for sale at Walmart?
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 3:22 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Celsius
Is that for sale at Walmart?
You local weapons store may carry them ...
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 3:30 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by anotherlimey
It doens't really mean more protection for you and your family though; the girl in Florida still got kidnapped and killed even with the camera there.

They have their place, but they don't replace real police officers, they can't arrest anyone and they don't stop crime; cameras only move crime to another place (like a non-silent burglar alarm), or make criminals improve their tactics.
Yes, it does help protect us, because that guy is off the streets now.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 3:33 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Partystar
Yes, it does help protect us, because that guy is off the streets now.
From one guy who may have never re-offended anyway.

It won't protect you from the rest of them; the girl WAS kidnapped, the CCTV didn't save her life.

In short, a camera can only catch someone after the act.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 3:46 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Partystar
Yes, it does help protect us, because that guy is off the streets now.

But it also opens up many dangers, too. Where is your limit? There seems to be no limit here in the US to what you can supposedly do to avenge a murder. For example, sending your army into a country that had nothing to do with it and murdering at least 100x the number of people who originally died is not considered by many to be an overreaction! Do you believe there is no limit, that we do not require a balance in our lives?
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 3:53 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by franc11s
Facial recognition is NOT advanced enough today.
There's an interesting report of the problems on using and collecting biometric imformation for identification here. And these were samples collected at specially designed facilities, not the sort of data produced by cctv.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 3:55 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Partystar
Yes, it does help protect us, because that guy is off the streets now.
It didnt protect Sarah Lunde did it!

The cameras in London didnt stop the original bombers or the second set of failed bombers!

To say they protect us is nonsense, they allow conviction of people who carry them out but they do not protect us from the original act.

If you think putting one pervert in prison will stop girls being raped and murdered your living in a fantasy land.

Cameras dont stop crime, they just record it
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 3:58 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by anotherlimey
From one guy who may have never re-offended anyway.

It won't protect you from the rest of them; the girl WAS kidnapped, the CCTV didn't save her life.

In short, a camera can only catch someone after the act.
In short, the camera has saved others from him.

The argument about him not re-offending is silly IMO, is that a chance we want to take? If everyone thought like that, then a lot of murderers would be freed on the basis that 'he might not do it again'! Are we only to incarcerate murderers that do it more than once, because that's what makes them an animal, because of how many times they did it?! I could see this reasoning used about someone who killed in self-defence, but that was not the case here.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:00 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by fatbrit
But it also opens up many dangers, too. Where is your limit? There seems to be no limit here in the US to what you can supposedly do to avenge a murder. For example, sending your army into a country that had nothing to do with it and murdering at least 100x the number of people who originally died is not considered by many to be an overreaction! Do you believe there is no limit, that we do not require a balance in our lives?
I'm not sure what you are saying David. I don't understand what this has to do with cameras.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:04 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Patrick
It didnt protect Sarah Lunde did it!

The cameras in London didnt stop the original bombers or the second set of failed bombers!

To say they protect us is nonsense, they allow conviction of people who carry them out but they do not protect us from the original act.

If you think putting one pervert in prison will stop girls being raped and murdered your living in a fantasy land.

Cameras dont stop crime, they just record it
So the use of a camera to identify & convict someone, which leads to them being put away doesn't help protect us?!?! If you think that, then why bother with policing anyway? Every person that is put away, is put away after the fact! A police officer helps to put away a murderer/rapist etc etc, this helps protect us, so why isn't this the case because it's a camera?
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:08 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

I think a re-reading of '1984' is in order for most of the youngsters around here....
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:10 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Partystar
I'm not sure what you are saying David. I don't understand what this has to do with cameras.

The OP was referring to more than just cameras though...
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:12 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Partystar
I'm not sure what you are saying David. I don't understand what this has to do with cameras.
Cameras are just an implement by which you are passing more control of the people to the state.

How far do you believe your civil liberties and freedoms can be eroded to protect you? Many totalitarian regimes have very low crime rates in terms of violence and sexual crimes because everybody is watched all the time. The former Warsaw Pact countries of Eastern Europe, for example, saw these crimes go right through the roof after their revolutions, and they had a police force who was incapable of dealing with it since they'd had no experience of it before.

If you want total protection from these crimes, you will have to give up your freedoms and pass them to the state to control on your behalf. How much power are you willing to pass to the state? Do you trust the state?
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:14 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Elvira
The OP was referring to more than just cameras though...

And so was I! The camera is merely the implement.
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