Lion in Winter

It's everywhere unfortunately. By which I mean world wide. It's not a U.S. phenomenon. When I was in Guatemala, it was still government policy to promote female sterilization to the indigenous peoples as a "convenient, reversible form of birth control." You may draw your own conclusions.

Ray

Possibly.. because he has facts to prove it too be true ..I have no idea..

Same backlash when the the Commissionaire of the Met said most street crime in London is caused by black youths .. of course having overwhelming evidence helped... But guardian readers still though it was wrong to say it ..

Lion in Winter

I know I'm repeating myself, but it's poverty, not skin colour. Look at countries where there is no one of black skin - who's committing that sort of crime?

I read The Guardian ever day.

However I also read The Spectator (when I'm feeling strong).


Shot any tourists yet today, by the way?

Ray

We are not discussing those countries though
I prefer The Sun
I prefer The Exchange &Mart
I was up at 5am but there was none about ..

Lion in Winter

If we are discussing the causes of crime, or the propensity of one "group" over another to commit it, it doesn't matter which country we are in. If we are discussion the social conditions which promote crime in any given country, then I agree, we should look long and hard at why some groups are over-represented among the poor in that country. It would be hard to argue that a long history of racist attitudes and policies has nothing to do with that. It's not a matter of excusing crime, but of improving the conditions which cause it, and that's not simple.

Chomsky again - "If you don't like mosquitoes, stop creating swamps."


Page 3 man.

Selling trucks?

They're probably lounging around on their lilos. You should look there.

scrubbedexpat099

In Mexico it is the other way around, in that if you are Indiginous you get a form of child support.

Dan@

Interesting story...good and bad.

Lion in Winter

In Mexico, birth control is available from any old shop at a cost of about 8 dollars per month. It is manufactured by exactly the same companies whose products are available here and in Europe. Tells you something about the markup here.

I'm not aware of child support specifically for indigenous communities in Mexico, although some local governments may administer it that way. They are much more integrated with the Latino community, except in remote rural areas. There are government run health clinics - but never enough, and in the remote areas almost nothing. Poverty in Mexico is grim.

scrubbedexpat099

We stocked up on some drugs, legal, for a friend, less than 10% of the cost.

Did make me wonder if there was not more money to be made smuggling legal drugs into the US than illegal ones.

So much for a free market.

It could be a State programme, I did not ask, Oaxaca. Poverty is the indirect result, massive corruption is the main issue. But having said that I have certainly seen worse, much worse. Sort of reminded me of Franco Spain.

ironporer

You are correct of course LIW. Bennet's comments were made in a discussion about ridiculous/stupid arguments for abortion, and his point was that there are many stupid arguments in favor such as...his.

As to black poverty in the US, many such as myself wonder why...after 4 decades of the "Great Society" and trillions of dollars spent to lift blacks out of the morass of poverty- why are there (statistically) just as many poor now as 40 years ago? I mean, Irish, Italian, Polish, Arab, Oriental immigrants all have come in waves, and been met with devastating poverty and predjudice. After a couple of generations, all have climed into the middle class or above through the same time honored ways- education, savings and hard work. What's up with blacks?

scrubbedexpat099

If only there was a simple answer.

Probably a few doctoral thesis out there and we would still be none the wiser.

Expectations?

Celtic_Angel

I can't believe you one word for you...SLAVERY!!

to compare Irish immigrants to African slaves who were dragged here against their will...not even acknowledged as human beings...doesn't even compare...they suffered more than just hardships and poverty.....America's history concerning slavery is a terrible one and it's going to take a lot longer than a few generations to change the way people are made to think...racists feeling superior, blacks feeling less worthy..etc

if you put it into to terms of British history, slavery wasn't that long ago , segregation wasn't even 50 years ago was it?

Ray

Slavery ended around 1865 ..thats some 140 years ago ... you cant blame all ills on that ...
JeeZ!! it was only 150 years ago the practice of young children cleaning chimneys in slave like condition ended ..is the problem of 10 year olds to be blamed on that..of course not ..thats long forgotten...
Irish Immigrant came by their millions to avoid the starvation over there where over a million had died ... and a lot of them.. although not slaves were treated as such ...
Its said that 56 million people died in WW2... Don't see many people blaming that for societys ill...and that was only 60 years ago ..

ironporer

Slavery is 150 years past- do you honestly believe that what happened 7 generations ago is to blame for the ills of todays generation? Are you really that naive? Your comments are the silliest (see, I am being nice, and did not say "stupidest") thing I have ever read here. My great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather's life had no bearing on me (other than his genetic contribution), nor do I imagine that any black man or woman would say his ancestor's does. Recall if you will that thee were plenty of white slaves (indentured servants or just plain commoners) who came here and made a go of it. And yes- Irish and Chinese laborers brought here for the transcontinental railroad were basically slaves with no rights also.

Is there still racism? Yes, of course there is. Unfortunately most of it seems to come from the you on the left today- in the form of the attitude that 'they really can't help being the way they are...so we need to help them (affirmative action, set-asides, quotas, etc)" mentality...which most successful blacks find demeaning and of no use.

scrubbedexpat099

Of course most Europeans could trace ancestors who were also slaves, just a question of how far you go back. Actually my Grandparents were not that far of it, just a question of terminology.

I remember reading an Article of the building of the Capitol in Washington, quite a bit slave labour involved, all though it did comment in passing that the non slave labour was actually treated worse.

You might want to have a read of Rough Crossings by Simon Schama.