BBC - The Fight for Dylan Gunn
#1
BBC - The Fight for Dylan Gunn
This BBC documentary shown last night was the story of a mother's transatlantic battle for custody of her son Dylan.
Northern Irish girl Cara met US naval man Bobby whilst holidaying in Spain. They fell in love and decided to move to Cara's hometown, Londonderry in Northern Ireland. The couple married and in 1998 their son, Dylan, was born.
Bobby struggled to find work in Northern Ireland so the following year the family relocated to Bobby's hometown of Dunnellon, Florida.
In the US relations between the couple deteriorated and Cara found life increasingly difficult. She accused Bobby of becoming controlling and aggressive and alleges that he gave her no money other than a small allowance for shopping. He subsequently left the marital home to live with another woman and ceased to provide adequate financial support, which included cancelling their health insurance.
Isolated and financially dependant on Bobby, Cara booked plane tickets back to Ireland for herself, Dylan, and his half sister Laura. Together they headed home to Derry without telling Bobby. She contacted Bobby on her arrival in Ireland and he said he would have her arrested, he then moved himself and his girlfriend into the marital home and filed for divorce and custody of Dylan.
Bobby invoked the Hague Convention - an agreement between signatory countries designed to prevent children being removed from and not returned to their country of residence. After a year back home in Ireland, Cara was ordered by the High Court to return to Florida to face a court battle with Bobby to determine which of them should have custody of Dylan.
During the court case Bobby's lawyer argued that Northern Ireland is an unsuitable place for a young boy to be brought up and that Cara is reliant on benefits. Cara's witnesses attacked Bobby's suitability as a husband and as a father. There were claims of Bobby's mental and physical abuse of Cara, and third parties testify in support of the physical abuse.
The Judge ruled that when Cara left Florida with Dylan she did this for 'self centered reasons' rather than 'family centered reasons', and he granted full custody to Bobby.
Cara had only been granted permission to stay in the United States for the period of the court case. It’s now more than five months since she lost custody of Dylan and she is still waiting for the judge to decide whether she can have a re-hearing. If a re-hearing is refused then she can lodge a motion for an appeal. She is also having to fight with US immigration to be able to stay in the States.
She said: "How could I go back to Ireland now? I don’t think any mother in this world with any maternal instinct could up and leave their own child. He needs me too much and I need him too much. There is no way I could walk away from Dylan, ever. They’d have to drag me kicking and screaming."
This is the second story of this type that I have heard this week. In both cases the child had not been born in the US, but had subsequently become resident there; and it was a US court that decided it was in the child's best interests to remain in the US!
I wonder how many people actually consider the consequences, where children are involved, of moving to another Country should the marriage subsequently break down?
As for Cara being 'self centered' rather than 'family centered', could not the same be said of Bobby when he cancelled their health insurance?
Northern Irish girl Cara met US naval man Bobby whilst holidaying in Spain. They fell in love and decided to move to Cara's hometown, Londonderry in Northern Ireland. The couple married and in 1998 their son, Dylan, was born.
Bobby struggled to find work in Northern Ireland so the following year the family relocated to Bobby's hometown of Dunnellon, Florida.
In the US relations between the couple deteriorated and Cara found life increasingly difficult. She accused Bobby of becoming controlling and aggressive and alleges that he gave her no money other than a small allowance for shopping. He subsequently left the marital home to live with another woman and ceased to provide adequate financial support, which included cancelling their health insurance.
Isolated and financially dependant on Bobby, Cara booked plane tickets back to Ireland for herself, Dylan, and his half sister Laura. Together they headed home to Derry without telling Bobby. She contacted Bobby on her arrival in Ireland and he said he would have her arrested, he then moved himself and his girlfriend into the marital home and filed for divorce and custody of Dylan.
Bobby invoked the Hague Convention - an agreement between signatory countries designed to prevent children being removed from and not returned to their country of residence. After a year back home in Ireland, Cara was ordered by the High Court to return to Florida to face a court battle with Bobby to determine which of them should have custody of Dylan.
During the court case Bobby's lawyer argued that Northern Ireland is an unsuitable place for a young boy to be brought up and that Cara is reliant on benefits. Cara's witnesses attacked Bobby's suitability as a husband and as a father. There were claims of Bobby's mental and physical abuse of Cara, and third parties testify in support of the physical abuse.
The Judge ruled that when Cara left Florida with Dylan she did this for 'self centered reasons' rather than 'family centered reasons', and he granted full custody to Bobby.
Cara had only been granted permission to stay in the United States for the period of the court case. It’s now more than five months since she lost custody of Dylan and she is still waiting for the judge to decide whether she can have a re-hearing. If a re-hearing is refused then she can lodge a motion for an appeal. She is also having to fight with US immigration to be able to stay in the States.
She said: "How could I go back to Ireland now? I don’t think any mother in this world with any maternal instinct could up and leave their own child. He needs me too much and I need him too much. There is no way I could walk away from Dylan, ever. They’d have to drag me kicking and screaming."
This is the second story of this type that I have heard this week. In both cases the child had not been born in the US, but had subsequently become resident there; and it was a US court that decided it was in the child's best interests to remain in the US!
I wonder how many people actually consider the consequences, where children are involved, of moving to another Country should the marriage subsequently break down?
As for Cara being 'self centered' rather than 'family centered', could not the same be said of Bobby when he cancelled their health insurance?
Last edited by 207lonsdale; May 5th 2004 at 7:21 am.
#2
I'm surprised Dylan got out of the US to begin with. Aren't both parent's permission required to take a child abroad?
#3
Originally posted by Ulujain
I'm surprised Dylan got out of the US to begin with. Aren't both parent's permission required to take a child abroad?
I'm surprised Dylan got out of the US to begin with. Aren't both parent's permission required to take a child abroad?
#4
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,848
I've just read on the website of the UK child abduction charity "Reunite" that a child's 'Habitual' residence is not necessarily considered the country where the child was born, but usually *where the child has been resident for the past 12 months* (before being abducted).
It's very interesting to see the info on child abduction. I read it under the heading: 'Have you brought your child into the UK from abroad'? (page 2).
http://www.reunite.org
I do feel sorry for the mother, but under the Hague Convention it does seem that she was wrong to take the little boy out of the US without informing the boy's father and getting his agreement, even though he had abandoned the marital home.
I do feel that it's a worse scenario for Western women who marry men from Islamic/Middle Eastern countries. Even in the case of divorce the Sharia courts give full custody rights to the father of the child.....which is why one often hears stories about the husbands taking the family on an extended visit or permanent move back to their country of origin. Inevitably when the marriage breaks down the wife wants to return to the West but the (ex)husband won't let her take the children. One such typical story is that of Betty Mahmoody in her book (and film) called "Not Without My Daughter".
What a nightmare.
It's very interesting to see the info on child abduction. I read it under the heading: 'Have you brought your child into the UK from abroad'? (page 2).
http://www.reunite.org
I do feel sorry for the mother, but under the Hague Convention it does seem that she was wrong to take the little boy out of the US without informing the boy's father and getting his agreement, even though he had abandoned the marital home.
I do feel that it's a worse scenario for Western women who marry men from Islamic/Middle Eastern countries. Even in the case of divorce the Sharia courts give full custody rights to the father of the child.....which is why one often hears stories about the husbands taking the family on an extended visit or permanent move back to their country of origin. Inevitably when the marriage breaks down the wife wants to return to the West but the (ex)husband won't let her take the children. One such typical story is that of Betty Mahmoody in her book (and film) called "Not Without My Daughter".
What a nightmare.
#5
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,894
Given in the last week or so we have had an 8 yr old girl strangled to death by a 12 yr old, and another 8 yr old shot dead in DC whilst watching tv, one wonders how safe the good old usa is for kids compared to ulster.
But then again, gun control over here means hitting who you aim at it seems.
But then again, gun control over here means hitting who you aim at it seems.
#6
Originally posted by Ulujain
I'm surprised Dylan got out of the US to begin with. Aren't both parent's permission required to take a child abroad?
I'm surprised Dylan got out of the US to begin with. Aren't both parent's permission required to take a child abroad?
Ash
#7
Well if they're US citizens, doesn't US law require them them to come and go on a US passport? [1]
[1] Excludes places Americans can get to without a passport (Mexico, Cayman Islands, etc)
[1] Excludes places Americans can get to without a passport (Mexico, Cayman Islands, etc)
#8
Originally posted by doctor scrumpy
Given in the last week or so we have had an 8 yr old girl strangled to death by a 12 yr old, and another 8 yr old shot dead in DC whilst watching tv, one wonders how safe the good old usa is for kids compared to ulster.
But then again, gun control over here means hitting who you aim at it seems.
Given in the last week or so we have had an 8 yr old girl strangled to death by a 12 yr old, and another 8 yr old shot dead in DC whilst watching tv, one wonders how safe the good old usa is for kids compared to ulster.
But then again, gun control over here means hitting who you aim at it seems.
Agreed, during the court case Bobby's lawyer argued that Northern Ireland was not a safe place to raise a child, but I did not hear any mention of why Florida was deemed a safer or better place to raise a child!
The child may have been resident in Florida at the time the marriage ended, but I don't understand how they can seem to disregard the fact that Dylan was born in Ireland. From what I understand, the family did not move to Florida for safety reasons, but because Bobby, being the US citizen, would be able to find employment more easily.
I can't help but feel that the final decision was biased toward the father as he was the US citizen, and the hearing was held in a US court!
#9
Originally posted by Ulujain
Well if they're US citizens, doesn't US law require them them to come and go on a US passport? [1]
[1] Excludes places Americans can get to without a passport (Mexico, Cayman Islands, etc)
Well if they're US citizens, doesn't US law require them them to come and go on a US passport? [1]
[1] Excludes places Americans can get to without a passport (Mexico, Cayman Islands, etc)
Ash
#10
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Panhandle Florida
Posts: 160
Originally posted by Ulujain
I'm surprised Dylan got out of the US to begin with. Aren't both parent's permission required to take a child abroad?
I'm surprised Dylan got out of the US to begin with. Aren't both parent's permission required to take a child abroad?
No definately not, I take my daughter in and out the country on her US passport no one has ever asked for any other permission.
Suzie
#11
Wow, I just thought you required the say so of both parents (if both parents exist, obviously). All to do with child abduction, etc.
#12
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10
Originally posted by 207lonsdale
I can't help but feel that the final decision was biased toward the father as he was the US citizen, and the hearing was held in a US court!
I can't help but feel that the final decision was biased toward the father as he was the US citizen, and the hearing was held in a US court!
You might think but just as immigration judges have to lok at the facts so do custody attorneys. Also by looking at the documentary I can't help but feel that it was biased towards the mother as it was completely from her point of view. Besides as of right now isn't she still there and I do recall Dylan saying that he wanted to stay there with both parents, really it was in his best interest because now he has both his parents whereas if Cara would have won custody she would have left immediately that day, how is that fair to the father? Now Cara is challenging her visa restrictions which she never condidered before.