Steerpike

As some of you know, I'm spending weeks at a time in Phoenix, AZ at the moment (and having a surprisingly good time doing it!). One day when I returned home to CA, I received a traffic ticket in the mail (I'm driving my own car down there), generated by an automated camera system at an intersection on a sleepy back-road in Paradise Valley (the uber-affluent district of Phoenix).

I'm not challenging the legitimacy of the ticket - based on the evidence presented, looks like I did pass through a light on red (and I think red-light running is a bad thing), but I'm eager to avoid this ticket getting on my record for a variety of reasons. Two locals have told me to simply ignore the ticket - they both said the legality of the tickets are very questionable (you were never served, and you never acknowledged receipt, were two reasons given - secondary to this discussion), and if you don't pay, there is zero follow-up since enough people DO pay that they are willing to let the ones who are brave enough to ignore the tickets go without consequence.

So - should I pay or should I ignore ...? I don't mind the cost ($280, I think) - it's the insurance issues that I'm trying to avoid. This assumes Arizona has a 'reporting' relationship with CA, which I presume it does. This article may confirm some of the assumptions above ...

chartreuse

Does AZ have a deal where if you pay up, take a class and ask the Judge nicely it gets expunged?

RoadWarriorFromLP

There's a judge in that area who tosses all of them out, believing that all camera tickets are unconstitutional. http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2671.asp But I believe that you have to appear in order to get it dismissed. Perhaps you could contact the court, and see whether you can contest your ticket by mail in this judge's court.

Ignoring a ticket is usually bad, they typically go to collections (if civil) or to warrant (if criminal). Camera tickets in AZ are civil, so that would end up on your credit report.

I am assuming that California won't care about the fact that Arizona views the offense as civil, rather than criminal as does California, and California will do what it likes with the information. If you have no other points, you may be able to have it appear on your record without your insurer penalizing you for it, but that will vary by insurer. (If you contest the ticket and win, it won't appear on your record, of course.)

Norri

IMHO the speed cameras are a pice of bullcrap and you should ignore all tickets if you wish.
Red lights are a different thing, I can listen every morning and evening to the news reporting rollovers and collisions at traffic lights.
You have ample opportunity to stop when the light is amber orange or whatever you want to call it. If these tickets are not enforcable they should be.

The link above refers to speed cameras.

Steerpike

For the record, I agree with you - I haven't had a ticket in 15 or 20 years (driving hundreds of thousands of miles), and I drive very conservatively these days. I was shocked to receive this ticket in the mail - but the photo does suggest that it happened. I'm not debating the validity of the charge, I'm just trying to keep it off my insurance for various reasons ... even without paying it (yet), you can imagine how careful I'm being now driving around town - it's already had its desired effect!

scrubbedexpat091

I got a speeding ticket in Phoenix back in 2001 on my California license and it never appeared on my driving record in California, not sure if that would still happen today or not.

I did pay the ticket.

another bloody yank

Pay it or you'll end up wearing pink underwear and living in a tent.

Brit3964

Sometimes the tickets don't go on your out of state record. I had a move over ticket in AR 18 months ago. Complete BS, the law there states anytime an emergency vehicle has its flashing lights on, they consider it an emergency. So passing a cop giving somebody a ticket with his lights on is an emergency??

I got a local lawyer to fight it but the judge was an asshole and said no to any form of relief so I had to pay it. To this day, it hasn't appeared on my SC record. I read somewhere they sometimes just don't bother with them. SC does have a move over law too. Guess I got lucky.

dbj1000

What a strange line of reasoning. You feel that breaking traffic laws by driving too fast is entirely acceptable, but you are outraged at red-light running. And you base this on your mental analysis of statistics based on listening to the traffic reports on the radio?

According to official figures, 30% of fatal traffic accidents are caused by speeding. That compares to 22% of non-fatal accidents (<10% of fatal accidents) caused by running red lights.

I'm not innocent here. I've had a couple of speeding tickets and I don't always observe the posted limits, but I really don't understand why you defend speeding and condemn red-light running. Care to explain?

penguinsix

Many states refer them to credit collection agencies which (if you ignore) can affect your credit rating eventually.

Jerseygirl

I believe you are correct. My daughter received a ticket for speeding a few years ago in NY state. We were told if she paid the fine it would be the end of it...because it was out of state she wouldn't get points on her license and she didn't.

fatbrit

Ignore it. Totally! Don't send a single reply.

"nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;"
"property" is your license.
"due process" requires, among other things, that you know about the charge against you. The courts have determined that you know through being served by a police officer or a licensed process server. A delivery by Cliff Claven just doesn't cut it -- though I'd avoid signing for registered mail for the next 6 months or so if I were you because this might just.

They've got 60 days to file it in court (they'll do it in the high 50s!), then 120 days to serve you. With an out-of-state residence, it'll never happen.

Some of the local courts (Snottsdale -- surprise, surprise!) have been inventing their own concept of "alternate service" and whipping folks' driver licenses. If you're unlucky enough, a trip to the Superior Court will quickly quash this insane idea.

Her ladyship likes to get free snapshots done as she's pottering round town, gabbling on the phone and applying her makeup as is her birthright. Not paid one yet, and don't intend to.

How's the house hunting going BTW? Places are now the same prices as a decade ago.

joto

I don't know how it will affect you when you come to renew your drivers licence if you don't pay the fine. Might be different seeing you got the ticket in a state that was not your home state.

RoadWarriorFromLP

It should go on your driving record. Whether or not the states process it correctly is another matter.

There are two systems used by the states to exchange information -- the Drivers License Compact and the Non-Resident Violators Compact. Most states belong to at least one of these, so the information should be reported. Sometimes you'll get lucky, but you can't count on it.

Here is a map of member states: http://www.aamva.org/aamva/DocumentD...-5A3A81064D8D} Of all of the states, only WI and MI aren't members of either compact.

There is a plan to eventually scrap this in favor of one system that covers all of North America.

Jerseygirl

It was put onto my daughter's driving record...but she didn't get any points and the insurance premium didn't change.