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Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

Old Sep 6th 2002, 2:30 pm
  #31  
Chris Parker
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    > Also, Jerome has a year and a half old son from another girl...which he loves and
    > takes care of but the girl doesnt let us take him without her and since he is
    > illegal, we cant go to court to get custody....it just sucks, thats all.

You are able to go for custody, particularly if the other girl does not know that he
is illegal in the U.S. Jerome has had quite an adult life prior to turning 18, BTW.

Immigration status rarely interferes with state law, which is how Jerome's mother has
accomplished all that she has.


CP
 
Old Sep 6th 2002, 7:18 pm
  #32  
Chris Parker
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    > Unfortunately, not getting married or leaving by 18 1/2 would have give him
    > additional options. Or... if he got married while LIFE was still around...

Or, if he departed before age 19 while in removal proceedings.

Under section 212(a)(9)(B) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, noncitizens who
were unlawfully present in the U.S. for a period longer than 180 days, who departed
the U.S. before any removal proceedings were commenced against them, and who then
seek admission to the country are inadmissible for a period of three years.

After age 19, it wouldn't matter anymore, because the 10-year ban doesn't include
that provision. I'm not clear if time spent in deportation proceedings is considered
as "lawfully present" either, but it might, and if so he would have longer and
voluntary departure would be helpful.


CP
 
Old Sep 6th 2002, 10:10 pm
  #33  
Mrtravel
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Default Re: Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

Thanks Chris,

So he would have been Ok until his 19th birthday. He got married and got access to
his trust fund before then, I think..

And.. he could have gone to another Caribbean country or the section of Jamaica that
is away from the killing fields. My understanding of the high murder rate is related
to drug and/or gang issues.

If it were me, I would have been looking for a solution as soon as I found out I was
here illegally. Of course, maybe his mind was to set on sex by then. (He needed a
clear mind, like in that scene from There's Something About Mary)

I wish them luck, but it seems rather uphill. I also think the USC should actually
visit the Jamaica before accuse us of not having knowledge of life in other
countries. While non travelers might think of Jamaica as a holiday resort, her view
is completely too far in the other direction.... This talk of culture, weather, food,
etc is ridiculous. It is a country not far from the US. Its culture comes from many
places, including the US and UK. A short drive through the country will show you they
drink Pepsi, play cricket, and have a love of batik.


Chris Parker wrote:
    > > Unfortunately, not getting married or leaving by 18 1/2 would have give him
    > > additional options. Or... if he got married while LIFE was still around...
    > Or, if he departed before age 19 while in removal proceedings.
    > Under section 212(a)(9)(B) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, noncitizens who
    > were unlawfully present in the U.S. for a period longer than 180 days, who departed
    > the U.S. before any removal proceedings were commenced against them, and who then
    > seek admission to the country are inadmissible for a period of three years.
    > After age 19, it wouldn't matter anymore, because the 10-year ban doesn't include
    > that provision. I'm not clear if time spent in deportation proceedings is
    > considered as "lawfully present" either, but it might, and if so he would have
    > longer and voluntary departure would be helpful.
    > CP
 
Old Sep 7th 2002, 5:50 pm
  #34  
LeightonJ
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Default Re: Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

Originally posted by Mrtravel:
Thanks Chris,

So he would have been Ok until his 19th birthday. He got married and got access to
his trust fund before then, I think..

And.. he could have gone to another Caribbean country or the section of Jamaica that
is away from the killing fields. My understanding of the high murder rate is related
to drug and/or gang issues.

If it were me, I would have been looking for a solution as soon as I found out I was
here illegally. Of course, maybe his mind was to set on sex by then. (He needed a
clear mind, like in that scene from There's Something About Mary)

I wish them luck, but it seems rather uphill. I also think the USC should actually
visit the Jamaica before accuse us of not having knowledge of life in other
countries. While non travelers might think of Jamaica as a holiday resort, her view
is completely too far in the other direction.... This talk of culture, weather, food,
etc is ridiculous. It is a country not far from the US. Its culture comes from many
places, including the US and UK. A short drive through the country will show you they
drink Pepsi, play cricket, and have a love of batik.


Chris Parker wrote:
    > > Unfortunately, not getting married or leaving by 18 1/2 would have give him
    > > additional options. Or... if he got married while LIFE was still around...
    > Or, if he departed before age 19 while in removal proceedings.
    > Under section 212(a)(9)(B) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, noncitizens who
    > were unlawfully present in the U.S. for a period longer than 180 days, who departed
    > the U.S. before any removal proceedings were commenced against them, and who then
    > seek admission to the country are inadmissible for a period of three years.
    > After age 19, it wouldn't matter anymore, because the 10-year ban doesn't include
    > that provision. I'm not clear if time spent in deportation proceedings is
    > considered as "lawfully present" either, but it might, and if so he would have
    > longer and voluntary departure would be helpful.
    > CP
First of all, I don't care if Jamaica WAS like the holiday resorts seen on TV. The point is, no one wants to be away from the ones they love. Human beings can get accustomed to living arrangements, food, and weather rather easily but when it comes to love and family, most of us are different. And as for Jamaica, it can't be much different than Key West, which I spent some years growing up in (well, actually, Marathon Key.) Jerome doesnt want to leave his mom or sisters or brothers or me or anyone who hes formed loving relationships with....and given the circumstances, Im sure you wouldnt eithter if in his position.....also, what does sex have to do with any of this? lol
 
Old Sep 8th 2002, 5:52 am
  #35  
Mrtravel
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LeightonJ wrote:

    > >
    > First of all, I don't care if Jamaica WAS like the holiday resorts seen on TV. The
    > point is, no one wants to be away from the ones they love.

From what I can tell, the "ones they love" seem to be you in the US, and possibly
family in Jamaica. So, if you love each other, then are you saying you won't live
with him in the Carribean if deported or if the legal requirement made this the
best path?

    > Human beings can get accustomed to living arrangements, food, and weather rather
    > easily but when it comes to love and family, most of us are different.

No, according to you, the food, weather, culture were key problems.

And as for Jamaica, it can't be much different than Key
    > West,

LOL... It is quite different from Key West. KW has a lower murder rate, no cricket,
and they are Coke drinkers.

which I spent some years growing up in (well, actually, Marathon
    > Key.)

Amazing that you lived so close to the Carribean and have little clue about
life there.

Jerome doesnt want to leave his mom or sisters or brothers or me
    > or anyone who hes formed loving relationships with....and given the circumstances,
    > Im sure you wouldnt eithter if in his position.

The issue wasn't what he could do now.. It is much too late to accomplish this
legally by going back to Jamaica. He should have done it before he turned 19. People
make choices to be away from people they love for various reasons. It's not like you
can't stay with him a while, or visit. It's the Carribean, not the moon. But, without
making this sacrifice, the outcome might turned out worse then desired.


...also,
    > what does sex have to do with any of this?

I don't recall anyone making any statments about sex.
 
Old Sep 8th 2002, 8:58 pm
  #36  
James Donovan
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Default Re: Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

LeightonJ <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by James Donovan:
    > > INS is really going to throw the book at him. Not only is he here illegally, but
    > > INS is going to put him under the microscope for his marriage while under
    > > deportation proceedings.
    > >
    > > Rete wrote in message news:...
    > > > If I remember his story correctly. He is Jamaican and his Mom had paid someone
    > > > to bring him into the US at the age of 3 while she waited in Canada. He has
    > > > lived here for 19 years and the INS has found out he is illegal. They started
    > > > deportation proceedings but he went and got married on the advice that the
    > > > Section
    > > > 245(i) would be reinstated and because he married a USC he would be able to
    > > > adjust. Well the Section has not been passed again so he is being
    > > > ordered to leave and now his wife (the poster) wants to know if anyone
    > > > has gotten through the deportation procedure and not been deported. You
    > > > can look for his and his wife's previous posts the last month or so
    > > > under the same name. It is easy to tell who is writing what.
    > >
    > Why will they? Let INS put us under a microscope.....we love eachother. They CANT
    > fault us for loving eachother!!!
    >


Read this group and you will see that not all couples get through.... Not even truly
married couples. It's hard and you get treated like animals, and even if the
marriage is legit there is a small chance he could get denied.


Furthermore, marriage while under deportation proceedings is generally NOT a good
idea and won't save you. As a matter of fact, it gives INS more fuel to the fire.
 
Old Sep 9th 2002, 7:44 am
  #37  
LeightonJ
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Default Re: Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by James Donovan:
LeightonJ <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by James Donovan:
    > > INS is really going to throw the book at him. Not only is he here illegally, but
[q2]> > INS is going to put him under the microscope for his marriage while under[/
 
Old Sep 9th 2002, 7:44 am
  #38  
LeightonJ
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Default Re: Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

Originally posted by James Donovan:
LeightonJ <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by James Donovan:
    > > INS is really going to throw the book at him. Not only is he here illegally, but
    > > INS is going to put him under the microscope for his marriage while under
    > > deportation proceedings.
    > >
    > > Rete wrote in message news:...
    > > > If I remember his story correctly. He is Jamaican and his Mom had paid someone
    > > > to bring him into the US at the age of 3 while she waited in Canada. He has
    > > > lived here for 19 years and the INS has found out he is illegal. They started
    > > > deportation proceedings but he went and got married on the advice that the
    > > > Section
    > > > 245(i) would be reinstated and because he married a USC he would be able to
    > > > adjust. Well the Section has not been passed again so he is being
    > > > ordered to leave and now his wife (the poster) wants to know if anyone
    > > > has gotten through the deportation procedure and not been deported. You
    > > > can look for his and his wife's previous posts the last month or so
    > > > under the same name. It is easy to tell who is writing what.
    > >
    > Why will they? Let INS put us under a microscope.....we love eachother. They CANT
    > fault us for loving eachother!!!
    >


Read this group and you will see that not all couples get through.... Not even truly
married couples. It's hard and you get treated like animals, and even if the
marriage is legit there is a small chance he could get denied.


Furthermore, marriage while under deportation proceedings is generally NOT a good
idea and won't save you. As a matter of fact, it gives INS more fuel to the fire.
I understand that not everyone gets through stuff like this, and that is why im scared to death. btw, jerome isn't in deportation preceedings (yet?)
 
Old Sep 9th 2002, 9:30 pm
  #39  
Chris Parker
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Default Re: Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

    > I understand that not everyone gets through stuff like this, and that is
    > why im scared to death. btw, jerome isn't in deportation preceedings (yet?)

They don't typically seek out undocumented aliens for deportation unless there is
some other reason, like an arrest or becomes a public charge or he files for an
immigration benefit (like adjustment). That isn't to say they can't try to remove
him without anything if they really wanted to, of course, but it is unlikely and
could be frivilous.

Removal of an undocumented alien is complicated for INS because:
1) They have no documentation.
2) They have no INS file number.
3) Nobody at INS knows how he got here, and if it was a legal entry or not.
4) What country should he be deported to? Will that country accept him? (for
example, if he says he is a national of Jamaica, did he come by water or by land,
and from what country did he travel from exactly?)

To deport an undocumented alien, they need these facts and will need to create
documentation for the alien where there was none previously (BTW-that costs them
money. They need to find his current address and serve an Order to Show Cause and
Notice to Appear. They need to give him his identify, create an arrival record for
him, bring him before an immigration judge, and create a case file for him and assign
him an A-number. They then need to give him a hearing and show his deportability
(illegal entry) before the immigration judge. The burden of proof is entirely on
them, and they have no records about him at all! He could possibly apply for
cancellation of removal or deferment or file for asylum or appeal the removal order
to the BIA and actually become legal because they tried to throw him out.

They figure he is worse off (or it is better off for them) if they do nothing and
keep him undocumented and with limited rights, and it costs them nothing to handle
him this way also. They only get one chance to deport him as things are now, and if
they fail to prove it, they'd need new facts (like an arrest) to try again.

Even Congress admits, the undocumented aliens are here to stay. So, I wouldn't worry
so much about his deportability if I were you. You'll certainly know about it if he
is going to be deported. Being ordered removed and being physically removed are also
different things.
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 1:49 am
  #40  
LeightonJ
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Default Re: Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

Originally posted by Chris Parker:
    > I understand that not everyone gets through stuff like this, and that is
    > why im scared to death. btw, jerome isn't in deportation preceedings (yet?)

They don't typically seek out undocumented aliens for deportation unless there is
some other reason, like an arrest or becomes a public charge or he files for an
immigration benefit (like adjustment). That isn't to say they can't try to remove
him without anything if they really wanted to, of course, but it is unlikely and
could be frivilous.

Removal of an undocumented alien is complicated for INS because:
1) They have no documentation.
2) They have no INS file number.
3) Nobody at INS knows how he got here, and if it was a legal entry or not.
4) What country should he be deported to? Will that country accept him? (for
example, if he says he is a national of Jamaica, did he come by water or by land,
and from what country did he travel from exactly?)

To deport an undocumented alien, they need these facts and will need to create
documentation for the alien where there was none previously (BTW-that costs them
money. They need to find his current address and serve an Order to Show Cause and
Notice to Appear. They need to give him his identify, create an arrival record for
him, bring him before an immigration judge, and create a case file for him and assign
him an A-number. They then need to give him a hearing and show his deportability
(illegal entry) before the immigration judge. The burden of proof is entirely on
them, and they have no records about him at all! He could possibly apply for
cancellation of removal or deferment or file for asylum or appeal the removal order
to the BIA and actually become legal because they tried to throw him out.

They figure he is worse off (or it is better off for them) if they do nothing and
keep him undocumented and with limited rights, and it costs them nothing to handle
him this way also. They only get one chance to deport him as things are now, and if
they fail to prove it, they'd need new facts (like an arrest) to try again.

Even Congress admits, the undocumented aliens are here to stay. So, I wouldn't worry
so much about his deportability if I were you. You'll certainly know about it if he
is going to be deported. Being ordered removed and being physically removed are also
different things.
Thank you...I understand that it isnt the easiest thing for the INS to do...it isnt like they go specifically looking for undocumented Aliens, however, as you said, he will be with limited rights. And, i know that he isnt a citizen and therefore shouldnt have "citizens rights" but I worry about supporting us. I make plenty of money, but I want to have children desperately. I want to buy a house and live normally. I want to talk to this Mr. Shusterman, but I don't have the money at the time. Also, he probably is too busy to speak with us anytime soon. Anyone have any suggestions about how to keep my sanity? it is hanging by a thread....................
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 3:11 pm
  #41  
Chris Parker
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Default Re: Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

    > Thank you...I understand that it isnt the easiest thing for the
    > INS to do...it isnt like they go specifically looking for
    > undocumented Aliens, however, as you said, he will be with limited
    > rights. And, i know that he isnt a citizen and therefore shouldnt have
    > "citizens rights" but I worry about supporting us.

Any deportation proceeding for Jerome will be controlled by the
following regulation:

8 CFR PART 240--PROCEEDINGS TO DETERMINE REMOVABILITY OF ALIENS IN THE
UNITED STATES
Sec. 240.8 Burdens of proof in removal proceedings.
(c) Aliens present in the United States without being admitted or
paroled.
In the case of a respondent charged as being in the United States
without being admitted or paroled, the Service must first establish
the alienage of the respondent. Once alienage has been established,
unless the respondent demonstrates by clear and convincing evidence
that he or she is lawfully in the United States pursuant to a prior
admission, the respondent must prove that he or she is clearly and
beyond a doubt entitled to be admitted to the United States and is not
inadmissible as charged.

    > I make plenty of money, but I want to have children desperately.
    > I want to buy a house and live normally.

While Jerome is not a citizen, all persons have equal rights under
state laws and full constitutional protections. There are some states
that even will issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens, in the name
of public safety on the roads. Jerome even qualifies as a resident
alien (U.S. person) for federal income tax purposes! So, I believe
you can do all that you want to do. Since you are a U.S. citizen, if
Jerome can't do something, you still can do it for him under your name
and SSN.

Regarding Jerome's employment, as I mentioned earlier, while he is not
authorized to be employed, the law does not prohibit him from engaging
in self-employment (as a contractor or business owner or such). There
is no employment eligibility verification process for independent
contractors also. See below:

8 CFR 274a -- CONTROL OF EMPLOYMENT OF ALIENS
Sec. 274a.1 Definitions.
For the purpose of this part--
(d) The term employee means an individual who provides services or
labor for an employer for wages or other remuneration but does not
mean independent contractors as defined in paragraph (j) of this
section or those engaged in casual domestic employment as stated in
paragraph (h) of this section;
(e) The term employer means a person or entity, including an agent or
anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest thereof, who
engages the services or labor of an employee to be performed in the
United States for wages or other remuneration. In the case of an
independent contractor or contract labor or services, the term
employer shall mean the independent contractor or contractor and not
the person or entity using the contract labor;
(f) The term employment means any service or labor performed by an
employee for an employer within the United States ... However,
employment does not include casual employment by individuals who
provide domestic service in a private home that is sporadic, irregular
or intermittent;
(g) The term State employment agency means any State government unit
designated to cooperate with the United States Employment Service in
the operation of the public employment service system;
(h) The term independent contractor includes individuals or entities
who carry on independent business, contract to do a piece of work
according to their own means and methods, and are subject to control
only as to results. Whether an individual or entity is an independent
contractor, regardless of what the individual or entity calls itself,
will be determined on a case-by-case basis. Factors to be considered
in that determination include, but are not limited to, whether the
individual or entity: supplies the tools or materials; makes services
available to the general public; works for a number of clients at the
same time; has an opportunity for profit or loss as a result of labor
or services provided; invests in the facilities for work; directs the
order or sequence in which the work is to be done and determines the
hours during which the work is to be done. The use of labor or
services of an independent contractor are subject to the restrictions
in section 274A(a)(4) of the Act and Sec. 274a.5 of this part;

Sec. 274a.5 Use of labor through contract.
Any person or entity who uses a contract, subcontract, or exchange
entered into, renegotiated, or extended after November 6, 1986, to
obtain the labor or services of an alien in the United States knowing
that the alien is an unauthorized alien with respect to performing
such labor or services, shall be considered to have hired the alien
for employment in the United States in violation of section
274A(a)(1)(A) of the Act.


Good luck.
CP
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 6:27 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

Chris Parker wrote:
    > While Jerome is not a citizen, all persons have equal rights under
    > state laws and full constitutional protections.
    > Regarding Jerome's employment, as I mentioned earlier, while he is not
    > authorized to be employed, the law does not prohibit him from engaging
    > in self-employment (as a contractor or business owner or such). There
    > is no employment eligibility verification process for independent
    > contractors also.

Doesn't this last part of your post state otherwise?
While the first quoted refers to illegal aliens and working for an
employer, it seems as though the section below forbids hiring an alien
as a contractor. Are you sure illegal aliens are permitted to work as
independent contractors? As I recall the discussions here, even people
pending AOS are restricted from such activity without an EAD.


    > Sec. 274a.5 Use of labor through contract.
    > Any person or entity who uses a contract, subcontract, or exchange
    > entered into, renegotiated, or extended after November 6, 1986, to
    > obtain the labor or services of an alien in the United States knowing
    > that the alien is an unauthorized alien with respect to performing
    > such labor or services, shall be considered to have hired the alien
    > for employment in the United States in violation of section
    > 274A(a)(1)(A) of the Act.
    > Good luck.
    > CP
 
Old Sep 16th 2002, 2:08 pm
  #43  
Chris Parker
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Default Re: Anyone had process started and allowed to stay?

    > Doesn't this last part of your post state otherwise?
    > While the first quoted refers to illegal aliens and working for an
    > employer, it seems as though the section below forbids hiring an alien
    > as a contractor. Are you sure illegal aliens are permitted to work as
    > independent contractors? As I recall the discussions here, even people
    > pending AOS are restricted from such activity without an EAD.

The forbits hiring an illegal alien as a contractor only if you know
the alien is not authorized to work. You are not required to ask the
alien or verify any documents to prove employment eligibility for
contractors, however. In other words, as long as you your contractor
doesn't tell you he is illegal, it is legal to use his services.

    > > Sec. 274a.5 Use of labor through contract.
    > > Any person or entity who uses a contract, subcontract, or exchange
    > > entered into, renegotiated, or extended after November 6, 1986, to
    > > obtain the labor or services of an alien in the United States knowing
    > > that the alien is an unauthorized alien with respect to performing
    > > such labor or services, shall be considered to have hired the alien
    > > for employment in the United States in violation of section
    > > 274A(a)(1)(A) of the Act.
 

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