Brit_far_from_home

Although I found America to be one of most tolerant and open countries I've ever been in, one subject was surprisingly not up for discussion: the War of Independence or American Revolution as they like to call it.

The orthodoxy is that it was an open and shut case of plucky, honest farmers and merchantmen having to bravely take up arms against the evil, oppressive Brits who were taxing them into the ground, taking their guns off them and shooting innocent protesters. The Founding fathers are deified as the virtual inventors of freedom and democracy and the contribution of the French to the American cause is really downplayed. It was as if the majority of Americans had swallowed the message of that awful Mel Gibson film "The Patriot" hook, line and sinker.

Whenever I challenged this overly simplistic interpretation by pointing out that it was a far more complicated situation they always became really defensive or either refused to debate further. It was as if I was attacking a sacred cow and they couldn't mentally cope with it.

Don't get me wrong; in many ways America was a great and free country and I could talk about a lot of things without people getting upset. I got along with most Americans really well (far better than most of the French or Australians I've ever had to spend time living and working with) and had lots of friends there. Ironically, I found many of them more pro-UK than any other people I've ever met.

But this one subject was off limits as far as openly suggesting different interpretations of the official story went. It was weird...

Any other expats found this or is it just me?

Werrf

Big time. There's one guy I work with, I get on with him very well, we trade jokes and insults back and forth all day long, but once I did make the mistake of challenging the orthodox view of the revolution/war of independence/whatever. He gave me that look people normally reserve for those who say things like "Hey, what's so bad about genocide?", and now he won't stop bringing it up. I feel like I've made an enormous social gaffe - and this is a guy who makes Hitler/holocaust jokes with a jewish girl sitting right behind us. Don't get me wrong, he is a great guy, and she gives just as good as she gets, but still...there's definitely a feeling that the revolution is Not to be Mentioned if you're British.

another bloody yank

What was wrong with "The Patriot"?

another bloody yank

You live in Philadelphia, the Revolution is kind of a big deal around there. Less so in places out west that weren't even inhabited (for the most part) at the time. The story of the Revolution that is taught is a very simplified version meant for schoolchildren and many people never bother to dig any deeper. The relevance of the political situation among the European nations at the time is hardly ever touched upon.

Werrf

I understand that, to a certain extent, but I'm only in Philly on a temporary basis while I train - my permanent American home will be in Ohio, once my company's Cleveland office opens. The guy I was talking to was half-Scot, half-Native of all things, and from Cleveland originally - indeed, all the people I talk to regularly are from the Cleveland area - and he was VERY vehement. I've also got to the point of avoiding talking to anyone I know on July 4th, since the constant 'jokes' about putting me in a red coat and sending me walking up and down the yard while they shoot at me got rather wearing. Understandable, the first couple of times, but when the same guy has threatened to shoot you six times, that's a bit much.

another bloody yank

Shit, sorry...

Brit_far_from_home

You can get your own back a bit and wind 'em up if you remind them that the "Redcoats" won 80% of the battles fought in the war and that the Rebels often fled in terror when the Brits bayonet-charged them. Their usual tactic was to take potshots from wooded areas; when any hand-to-hand stuff actually happened the British usually came out on top. You might also want to remind them that "cheese-eating-surrender-monkey" French weapons, ships and troops were key in getting Cornwallis to surrender at Yorktown in 1781.

The parallels with the Vietnam war are startling. Americans like to brag how they didn't really lose that one; how US troops won all the orthodox fighting and that they would have won it but for the bumbling "stabbed-us-in-the back" politicians back home who didn't give the military enough supplies and men and the underhand "terror" tactics of the North Vietnamese that stopped them. I agree - kind of like why Britain didn't win in 1781.

elfman

Strengths of the opposing armies at Yorktown:

British: 7,500

French 10,800
American 8,500

anotherlimey

Whenever they forget the "French Connection" I always mention that Lafayette isn't just the name of a town... I normally get blank stares all around.

tamms_1965

Very true. I was born and raised in Ohio and this sums it up very well. Unless you take American History in college, you never get an in-depth education about the subject.

robin1234

The culture shock you express very succintly in your post, Brit_far_from_home, will be familiar to all British expatriates who have settled in the USA. Certainly all British expats who have studied history or who have read a little bit, anyway. I usually approach this problem by coming up with some contrarian view (for instance; the Americans revolted because they knew that Britain was moving towards abolition of slavery, and they wanted to retain slavery in America.) This is partially true, but as oversimplified and tendentious as the "revolution myth" that they all are brought up with from birth. This approach may get your American conversation partner to think a bit critically and maybe read more widely.

The American Revolution is not the only myth they cling to that needs deconstructing, however. Here are some others.

1. America won the War of 1812. The one and only reason for the War of 1812 was that the British forcibly pressed American sailors to serve on RN ships. (FACT: The war ended in a 0:0 draw. America started the war by invading Canada for simple imerialistic ambition.)

2. Britain supported the Confederacy in the Civil War. After all, the rebels launched an attack on the US from Ontario, and the British built warships for the rebels and gave them safe haven!! (FACT: Britain recognized the South to a limited extent; but the Canadian authorities didn't have prior knowledge of the invasion of the US from Canadian soil. The warships were bought and paid for; that's private enterprise.)

3. America saved Europe and Britain's sorry ass in the second world war. (FACT: Britain was well on the way to winning when the US belatedly decided to join in. Anyway, Russia won the war, not the US.)

You'll notice that my responses are just as oversimplified and tendentious as the American claims. But, you get people thinking, you get a discussion going.. usually works out well.

Robin

another bloody yank

The history of the Ohio/Kentucky region is a story I find particularly fascinating.

Rete

Actually this is not a fictious version of the revolution. The bulk of the troops were just that, simple men and women, with little or no military training or disclipine, and little in the way of weapons. And yes, I believe the movie "The Patriot". Curious why you don't?


Why a challenge? There is nothing wrong with simplistic if the truth is there in the telling. Why have to complicate the interpretation with politics when politics in this instance boils down to overtaxation, abuse of citizens, etc. Why does it have to be debated? Are you trying to prove to Americans that there was no cause for the revolution. That England was a benevolant parent whose tender caring and nurturing of the inhabitants of the new world is being maligned by turncoats? Perhaps it is because the person wanting to debate the subject is, in fact, a citizen of the country that lost the revolutionary war.

I suppose it is a sacred cow. After all, it is our country's founding history. Do the citizens of other countries not have a sacred cow that they defend when being its history is being debated by foreigners? For that matter, I would assume that the UK has a sacred cow or two in its history books that they would not like debated.

I think one must remember that you are the expat here in the US. We are not Brits. We do not share the same culture or the same history.

But to answer your question, there are many of us who do know what the American Revolution was about and know of its political causes and how it was fought and how often we lost battles to the British. However, we also know that we fought to become free of the British Empire in the 1700's, for whatever reason, and have established our own government. We also know that our government is still evolving and will continue to evolve as the years go on.

elfman

Just waiting for Rushman, RoadWarrior and Dakota to show up.....

elfman

Did you know they've taken the word "gullible" out of the dictionary?