American History
Apr 6th 2006, 2:48 pm
#46
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Re: American History
Originally Posted by User Name
Good point! 
But as this thread is on the topic of American History then Native American History does count. As to Stonehenge, when one visits the site of Stonehenge and looks at the maps of that time, the names and language on the maps are Celtic names. There are Celtic chieftain burial mounts within eye sight of Stonehenge. If memory serves me right, on the tour around Stonehenge the "history phone" points them out. The English did not build Stonehenge, it is part of Celtic History, not English history because the English were not established in the area, England as in English England did not even exist at that time.
But as this thread is on the topic of American History then Native American History does count. As to Stonehenge, when one visits the site of Stonehenge and looks at the maps of that time, the names and language on the maps are Celtic names. There are Celtic chieftain burial mounts within eye sight of Stonehenge. If memory serves me right, on the tour around Stonehenge the "history phone" points them out. The English did not build Stonehenge, it is part of Celtic History, not English history because the English were not established in the area, England as in English England did not even exist at that time.
Apr 6th 2006, 2:48 pm
#47
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Re: American History
Originally Posted by User Name
Good point!
But as this thread is on the topic of American History then Native American History does count. As to Stonehenge, when one visits the site of Stonehenge and looks at the maps of that time, the names and language on the maps are Celtic names. There are Celtic chieftain burial mounts within eye sight of Stonehenge. If memory serves me right, on the tour around Stonehenge the "history phone" points them out. The English did not build Stonehenge, it is part of Celtic History, not English history because the English were not established in the area, England as in English England did not even exist at that time.
But as this thread is on the topic of American History then Native American History does count. As to Stonehenge, when one visits the site of Stonehenge and looks at the maps of that time, the names and language on the maps are Celtic names. There are Celtic chieftain burial mounts within eye sight of Stonehenge. If memory serves me right, on the tour around Stonehenge the "history phone" points them out. The English did not build Stonehenge, it is part of Celtic History, not English history because the English were not established in the area, England as in English England did not even exist at that time.
Apr 6th 2006, 2:58 pm
#48
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Re: American History
Originally Posted by Celsius
Have you read this thread? As early as post #3, someone mentioned Native Americans...
Yep, and I am reinforcing the point that American History is not how we Brits frequently view it. American History far away predates English history. It is a common mistake among some Brits (NC Penguin excluded) that English history is somehow mythically superior to the rest of the world, America included when in fact American History far and away predates the start of English history. It is a common mistake by some Brits to think that Stonehenge was built by the English.
Last edited by User Name; Apr 6th 2006 at 3:00 pm.
Apr 6th 2006, 3:05 pm
#49
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Re: American History
Originally Posted by User Name
Yep, and I am reinforcing the point that American History is not how we Brits frequently view it. American History far away predates English history. It is a common mistake among some Brits (NC Penguin excluded) that English history is somehow mythically superior to the rest of the world, America included when in fact American History far and away predates the start of English history. It is a common mistake by some Brits to think that Stonehenge was built by the English.
I'd be very surprised if Native American history was any older than the history of the "British" Isles. Both are probably as old as each other.Anyway you can't really compare Native American history to English history, one relates to an entire continent, the other only came about when we defined our borders.
I haven't met anyone who thinks that English history is in any way superior to say - Ancient Egypt.
Apr 6th 2006, 4:09 pm
#50
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 30,102
Re: American History
So that's it then is it? American History = Native Americans? Maybe I should visit a Reservation Casino to get the true flavour of America.
Apr 6th 2006, 4:10 pm
#51
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Re: American History
Originally Posted by gruffbrown
it's boring thread for some of you I know, but genuinely interested in your thoughts.
Gruff
Gruff
ohh right that wont take long...the alamo and errr
Apr 6th 2006, 4:19 pm
#52
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Re: American History
Originally Posted by mickmills
We all originate from Africa anyway, so all share the same history somewhere down the line.
I don't I'm British.
Apr 6th 2006, 4:21 pm
#53
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Re: American History
Originally Posted by User Name
Yep, and I am reinforcing the point that American History is not how we Brits frequently view it. American History far away predates English history. It is a common mistake among some Brits (NC Penguin excluded) that English history is somehow mythically superior to the rest of the world, America included when in fact American History far and away predates the start of English history. It is a common mistake by some Brits to think that Stonehenge was built by the English.
Apr 6th 2006, 4:24 pm
#54
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Re: American History
James A. Michener's novels. "Centennial" and "Chesapeake" both give a really good feel of American history - from way, way back. He must have spent years on research. Both highly recommended,
"Centennial" was made into a 12-part TV mini-series years ago, that introduced me to the books originally.
American history, like most other things American, has to be looked at from a different perspective from that we Brits are used to. To be honest, I prefer American history, I can understand it better.
British history confuses my simple mind.
"Centennial" was made into a 12-part TV mini-series years ago, that introduced me to the books originally.
American history, like most other things American, has to be looked at from a different perspective from that we Brits are used to. To be honest, I prefer American history, I can understand it better.
British history confuses my simple mind.
Apr 6th 2006, 4:30 pm
#55
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Re: American History
[QUOTE=User Name]... American History far away predates English history.... QUOTE]
Not quite sure I agree with you there.
If we are ignoring pre-history (no dinosaurs) then most likely both were about the same age (from a homo sapien point of view).
Early humans settled in Europe and eventually "Britain" while ther was still a link between the British Isles and Mainland Europe in about 35-25,000 BCE.
Early humans settled in "North America" by crossing the Bering Strait in about 20-15,000 BCE.
No intention to get picky but I doubt that this thread was intended to get into a "OUR History is better than YOUR History!" competition.
If you are suggesting that the history of the English only starts when England came into existance then you are being extremely pedantic. At no point did anyone suggest that this thread was just about the history of the USA. Native American history was mentioned in the third post.
The history of the the current English is as long as the Native Americans. The history of England is only about 8-900 years and the History of the USA is 230 years.
Nobody is suggesting that the guys who built stonehenge stuck a St Georges cross in the top when they had finished (for one thing they were pagan).
Influences which have preceded current English are relevant to English History, even if they, themselves, were NOT English... The Gauls, The Romans, The Jutes, The Angles, The Saxons, The Vikings, the Normans all introduced there cultural influences into the British Isles and went into making the British people (excluding our Celtic countrymen/women).
Anyway, now it's MY turn to get pedantic... If you are going to throw Native American history down please at least put our culture in the same context, European History! When you bear in mind that the native americans were actually a large number of seperate tribes with different cultures and languages, surely that is no different that the different countries of early Europe? If you are going to compare English History to Native American history try picking a specific tribe rather than negating the existance of the seperate tribes. If anything YOU are not giving the native Americans the respect that they deserve by blocking them all together.
I'm only going to put on the tribes from A through to C (the list is way to big).
Abenaki, Accohannock, Achomawi, Acoma, Adenas, Alabama-Coushatta Tribe, Alleghans, Aleut, Algonkin, Amonsoquath, Apache, Arikara Handan Hidatsa, Anishinabe, Anasazi, Apalachee, Aquidneck, Arapaho, Arawak, Arikara, Aroostook, Assateague, Assiniboine, Athabaskan, Atsina, Aztecs, Bella Coola, Beothuk, Blackfeet, Blackfoot, Bodega Miwok, Brothertown, Caddo, Cahuilla, Calusa, Carrier Sekani, Catawba, Cayuga, Cayuse, Chehalis, Cherokee, Cheyenne, Chickaloon, Chickasaw, Chicora, Chicorra Waccamaw, Chinook, Chilcotin, Chippewa, Choctaw, Chitimacha, Chucalissa, Chumash, Ciboney, Clatsop, Cocopah, Coeur d'Lane, Coharie, Comanche, Costanoan, Coushatta, Cowichan, Cowlitz, Creek, Crees, Crow
My point is, keep it in context! Arguing that Native American history is older than English history is completely irrelevant. You might as well argue that the New York Giants are better than Baseball! It's an irrelevant argument.
Not quite sure I agree with you there.
If we are ignoring pre-history (no dinosaurs) then most likely both were about the same age (from a homo sapien point of view).
Early humans settled in Europe and eventually "Britain" while ther was still a link between the British Isles and Mainland Europe in about 35-25,000 BCE.
Early humans settled in "North America" by crossing the Bering Strait in about 20-15,000 BCE.
No intention to get picky but I doubt that this thread was intended to get into a "OUR History is better than YOUR History!" competition.
If you are suggesting that the history of the English only starts when England came into existance then you are being extremely pedantic. At no point did anyone suggest that this thread was just about the history of the USA. Native American history was mentioned in the third post.
The history of the the current English is as long as the Native Americans. The history of England is only about 8-900 years and the History of the USA is 230 years.
Nobody is suggesting that the guys who built stonehenge stuck a St Georges cross in the top when they had finished (for one thing they were pagan).
Influences which have preceded current English are relevant to English History, even if they, themselves, were NOT English... The Gauls, The Romans, The Jutes, The Angles, The Saxons, The Vikings, the Normans all introduced there cultural influences into the British Isles and went into making the British people (excluding our Celtic countrymen/women).
Anyway, now it's MY turn to get pedantic... If you are going to throw Native American history down please at least put our culture in the same context, European History! When you bear in mind that the native americans were actually a large number of seperate tribes with different cultures and languages, surely that is no different that the different countries of early Europe? If you are going to compare English History to Native American history try picking a specific tribe rather than negating the existance of the seperate tribes. If anything YOU are not giving the native Americans the respect that they deserve by blocking them all together.
I'm only going to put on the tribes from A through to C (the list is way to big).
Abenaki, Accohannock, Achomawi, Acoma, Adenas, Alabama-Coushatta Tribe, Alleghans, Aleut, Algonkin, Amonsoquath, Apache, Arikara Handan Hidatsa, Anishinabe, Anasazi, Apalachee, Aquidneck, Arapaho, Arawak, Arikara, Aroostook, Assateague, Assiniboine, Athabaskan, Atsina, Aztecs, Bella Coola, Beothuk, Blackfeet, Blackfoot, Bodega Miwok, Brothertown, Caddo, Cahuilla, Calusa, Carrier Sekani, Catawba, Cayuga, Cayuse, Chehalis, Cherokee, Cheyenne, Chickaloon, Chickasaw, Chicora, Chicorra Waccamaw, Chinook, Chilcotin, Chippewa, Choctaw, Chitimacha, Chucalissa, Chumash, Ciboney, Clatsop, Cocopah, Coeur d'Lane, Coharie, Comanche, Costanoan, Coushatta, Cowichan, Cowlitz, Creek, Crees, Crow
My point is, keep it in context! Arguing that Native American history is older than English history is completely irrelevant. You might as well argue that the New York Giants are better than Baseball! It's an irrelevant argument.
Apr 6th 2006, 4:33 pm
#56
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Re: American History
Originally Posted by CitySimon
Not quite sure I agree with you there.
<snip>
My point is, keep it in context! Arguing that Native American history is older than English history is completely irrelevant. You might as well argue that the New York Giants are better than Baseball! It's an irrelevant argument.
You put it so much better than me
Apr 6th 2006, 4:37 pm
#57
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Location: Santa Monica,CA from Birmingham, UK
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Re: American History
English amoeba were older wiser and more interesting than American amoeba.
The end
The end
Apr 6th 2006, 4:38 pm
#58
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Re: American History
Originally Posted by Dimsie
James A. Michener's novels. "Centennial" and "Chesapeake" both give a really good feel of American history - from way, way back. He must have spent years on research. Both highly recommended,
"Centennial" was made into a 12-part TV mini-series years ago, that introduced me to the books originally.
American history, like most other things American, has to be looked at from a different perspective from that we Brits are used to. To be honest, I prefer American history, I can understand it better. British history confuses my simple mind.
"Centennial" was made into a 12-part TV mini-series years ago, that introduced me to the books originally.
American history, like most other things American, has to be looked at from a different perspective from that we Brits are used to. To be honest, I prefer American history, I can understand it better.
British history confuses my simple mind.
Apr 6th 2006, 4:42 pm
#59
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 30,102
Re: American History
Originally Posted by lionheart
English amoeba were older wiser and more interesting than American amoeba.
The end
The end
Apr 6th 2006, 4:52 pm
#60
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Re: American History
Originally Posted by gruffbrown
So that's it then is it? American History = Native Americans? Maybe I should visit a Reservation Casino to get the true flavour of America.
Personally, US history is as deep and complex as English/British history (just not as old).