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The American Dream Still Alive?

The American Dream Still Alive?

Old Dec 26th 2007, 3:23 am
  #61  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Redlippie View Post
You said it so well.


In Europe, people in their 70's are traveling, enjoying life for the most part.


Really?
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 3:27 am
  #62  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Mallory View Post
Really?
My grandparent's are.....
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 4:07 am
  #63  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Redlippie View Post
I'm not a Sawf Efriken

Your mate's got a bar there
You said it so well lol - better than my poor phonetics
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 6:08 am
  #64  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

We always liked the USA Jackal (is that you Carlos) we came because with my job I had the chance to come.
We have the option after two years to go back and in all honesty right now will go back, to Europe that is, highly unlikely UK, as Spain was where I spent every summer etc growing up and my Mum is Basque so I want my daughter to experience that.
Think the comment made earlier about EU was a good one by a previous poster some great places to live.
My two cents worth after 3 months is simple.
Its nice where we are(weather is shit) and my daughter is in a great school that like for like, is same fee as we paid at home but is far, far superior to her UK school.
I get Euro holidays part of my deal so its fine but having 10 days for me is crap, its what you are used to I suppose, that pysche of loads of hours etc has always baffled me.Its about results and if you get them having 6 weeks leave and doing 35 hrs a week why not?
We have had friends go to Oz and love it but some who waited years to get in but left in less than 1 year found it too remote.
Canada having been a few times is a softer landing in some ways with the slightly more familiar touch.
However still have seen both there as well.
If seeing Glentoran play or Offaly win All Ireland for example are key as is proximity of the familiar forget it here and you know that from studying here.
Can you get on here?yes for sure more than in UK I think that perception of you can make it big here but not at home has faded and in fact the UK is very different in that aspect now.
My sole regret about coming here is arriving at 40 rather than 24 so from that aspect do it now if you are gonna do it think life has moulded you far less and allows you to be more flexible of thought and feeling.

Last edited by gazzpfc; Dec 26th 2007 at 6:10 am.
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 6:46 am
  #65  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Rete View Post
However, I do know, as an American, that we have the ability to change it, if we banded together for change.

The fault lies not with the government or its officials but with its constitutents that do not take an active participation in its or the officials actions. After all, we elect them and we pay their salaries. They work for us and us alone. If we wanted them out, we have the wherewithal to remove them from office and to change the laws.
I do not believe that this is the case.

The government is so much in bed with corporations and other special interests that I believe that it is impossible for individuals to change things via the ballot box. I hope I am wrong. Every country has this problem to a degree; but this country has it worse than many.

Then we (the people) have to agree on what we're voting *for*. Assuming the voters can combine to vote entire parties/groups out of office.... how do you achieve this when there's been so much divisiveness?

Here's one issue that seems relatively straightforward and yet we couldn't even accomplish it:

all the major socialised medicine systems employ competitive bidding and volume buying to keep down the price of prescription drugs. Yet Medicare, which is a *socialised medicine system* run by the government, was prohibited from doing the same thing, resulting to higher costs for both the government and the people on Medicare.

Why? Because Big Pharma replentishes the pockets of many in Washington DC, that's why. Pork, kickbacks, whatever you want to call it. But the trouble is that very few Americans *even know* about the situation, much less realise exactly how much money we could be saving.
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 10:50 am
  #66  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Redlippie View Post
You said it so well.

And FYI mallory, I am not moving to Manchester but to my home country, which is one of the best on earth.
Yes, I know you said you were going to Portugal, but you also said you were going to the UK in 2008. You said you were going to rent a cottage in Cheshire, and your sons were going to school in England, to take A levels. You said you would buy a car while you were there.

I gather that you've never lived in the north of England, that you left Portugal when you were 7/8 years old. You've been living in SA and FL for all of your adult life.

I think you have to live somewhere as an adult to understand how things are. I think it's great that will leave the USA and go and try out other countries. I've lived in UK, Germany and USA. I like all 3 countries - all have good and bad - none is better than the other IMO.
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 11:00 am
  #67  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Manc View Post
My grandparent's are.....
My grandfathers died young. My grandmothers scraped by, one helped by her 8 children, and the other had 5 children, and a very meager war widow's pension. My dad died when I was 20. My mum scraped by on 1/6 of a civil service pension, because he died before he was of the required age, even though he had worked there most of his adult life. All of my mum's trips to the USA were paid for by me. When she was over here I would buy most of her clothes. My siblings paid for her travel insurance. She traveled to SA, Germany and the USA - but couldn't pay for it herself - which she hated. So yes she traveled extensively, but not on the state pension. That just provided enough money to buy food and utilities. My mum played whist and bingo. and went on trips with the senior citizens, most of her friends were in the same boat as my mum - broke. She gave up her car because she couldn't afford the petrol. So your grandparents are lucky. It's like the US - some older people are broke, and some are rolling it. You cannot generalise.

http://www.euro.centre.org/data/1156245035_36346.pdf

Last edited by Mallory; Dec 26th 2007 at 11:16 am.
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 12:58 pm
  #68  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Manc View Post
I think this generation will have it tougher than us to be honest.

I believe that the 50's had it the best. and it's been a gradual downhill ever since.

just a personal opinion.
I agree with you (While inserting the obligatory "unless you were black"!).
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 1:12 pm
  #69  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Manc View Post
My grandparent's are.....
as is my mother-in-law (Dutch) who has never worked outside the home, and my SIL who is my age and working is quite the globetrotter having trekked every continent save Antarctica. She gets five weeks of hols every year and I'm always hearing about where so-and-so is off to next. Hell, my MIL even beat me to Big Bend (I had to work).
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 1:45 pm
  #70  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Redlippie View Post
You said it so well.

Nickel and Dimed is an excellent book that is a real eye opener to the 'American Dream'. Thing is, I live in a state that is mostly wrinklies who have retired from up north. The non-wrinklies work these terrible jobs mostly, which they find in the service industry as there are few high-end jobs in the state. You really get to see the underbelly if you live down here for long enough.

In Europe, people in their 70's are traveling, enjoying life for the most part. They're not packing groceries in a supermarket in order to buy meds, or help pay for their ridiculous property tax. And before someone chimes in and goes on about them having made provision for their retirement, etc...I was here during the dotcom meltown. We know what the Enrons of the world did to so many of their funds. Wiped many people's pensions out.
If all of our wrinklies are packing groceries wher did all of those people driving Cadillacs around Florida come from? FWIW, both my Paternal and Maternal grandparents traveled after retirement, both abroad and in the US. My Paternal Grandfather worked construction for forty years and my Maternal Grandfather (a child of Sicilian immigrants) retired after 20 years as a butcher, after first building a succesful meat/produce/grocery business from scratch. His family was extremely poor, and he began working full time selling fruit out of a street cart after completing the eighth grade. Now, both my parents and my In-laws travel. My Father is not yet retired, but has five weeks vacation and takes one two week trip (usually a road trip) a year with my Mom, my Mom is retired and is constantly going somwhere with her retired friends.


Originally Posted by Redlippie View Post
Dog eat dog mate. And the American folk don't realize that for the most part, they are living in a very unhealthy society because it is all they know.

Yes, you can live the American dream. If you are somewhat smart enough. But let us face it, there are millions of Americans who are not the brightest tools in the shed and who will just not be able to advance up the college ladder, no matter how much they try. These are the janitors, the burger-flippers, the garbage men, etc..of the world. They do not live, and will never have the chance to live the American Dream. They live the American Nightmare.
I don't think your "dull tool" scenario above is unique to America. Every country has unskilled labor. But just because you start off a janitor doesn't mean you have to stay a janitor. I think if anything, America has shown that even the stupid have a chance of success. As an American I know that if I was willing to do what it takes (I'm not, different priorities) I could be rich.

Originally Posted by Redlippie View Post
And FYI mallory, I am not moving to Manchester but to my home country, which is one of the best on earth.
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 2:07 pm
  #71  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by another bloody yank View Post
..............America has shown that even the stupid have a chance of success. As an American I know that if I was willing to do what it takes (I'm not, different priorities) I could be rich.
What an utterly idiotic statement...
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 2:09 pm
  #72  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
What an utterly idiotic statement...
Didn't you read the line before?
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 2:28 pm
  #73  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
What an utterly idiotic statement...

And why is that? I don't think it is idiotic.
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 2:29 pm
  #74  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Rete View Post
And why is that? I don't think it is idiotic.
It is an insult to all the millions who toil and work extremely hard, without a snowball's chance in hell of ever being comfortably off, never mind rich.
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Old Dec 26th 2007, 2:38 pm
  #75  
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Default Re: The American Dream Still Alive?

Originally Posted by Redlippie View Post

Yes, you can live the American dream. If you are somewhat smart enough. But let us face it, there are millions of Americans who are not the brightest tools in the shed and who will just not be able to advance up the college ladder, no matter how much they try. These are the janitors, the burger-flippers, the garbage men, etc..of the world. They do not live, and will never have the chance to live the American Dream. They live the American Nightmare.

I can agree with this, and indeed think it will get worse for those with meager minds.

In years past, a person of below average inteligence could always count on a job at Ford, John Deere or the steel mill, making a decent living and being able to maybe see his kids off to college. In today's service/banking/healthcare based economy those jobs have been sent to China or the wages so dramatically cut as to allow only subsistance living.

In future years it can only get worse for those unlucky enough to be born dumb.
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