The American Dream Still Alive?
Dec 25th 2007, 9:52 pm
#46
@matthewb76
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 21,886
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
well said.
I do wonder why so may come here from the UK, Germany etc, get married then divorced and continue to stay here...all the while bemoaning how bad it is here. I do not question that Spain, UK or other countries may have some/many things better...but why stay here if that is so?
I do wonder why so may come here from the UK, Germany etc, get married then divorced and continue to stay here...all the while bemoaning how bad it is here. I do not question that Spain, UK or other countries may have some/many things better...but why stay here if that is so?
but the streets aren't paved with gold.
no matter which country you live in, you need to pay the mortgage, graft and pay the bills.
I think some Brits see the USA as the easy life. It ain't. It's just as hard to live here as in any other 1st world country.
there is no American dream. just as there ain't no British dream, German dream, Dutch dream, etc etc.......
Dec 25th 2007, 9:55 pm
#47
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,383
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
well said.
I do wonder why so may come here from the UK, Germany etc, get married then divorced and continue to stay here...all the while bemoaning how bad it is here. I do not question that Spain, UK or other countries may have some/many things better...but why stay here if that is so?
I do wonder why so may come here from the UK, Germany etc, get married then divorced and continue to stay here...all the while bemoaning how bad it is here. I do not question that Spain, UK or other countries may have some/many things better...but why stay here if that is so?
Jim and I also wonder that about German friends of ours. She married a Yank and they lived both in Germany for a while and then moved here 20 odd years ago. She won't take citizenship and complains about the healthcare and this and that. Yet all her surgeries for her heart condition were done here in the US and didn't leave her bankrupt so she must be well covered. She is now eligible at age 65 to claim social security and does claim it from Germany but yet she will never go back to live in German and that is where her brothers and sisters still live.
For myself, I'm glad she is here as I would miss her if she were to leave. But I hate to see her so unhappy at times about having to live in the US. Her hubby doesn't care where he lives.
Dec 25th 2007, 10:01 pm
#48
Maño-Americano
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: In the heart of the Ozarks
Posts: 10,216
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
I don't think we're moaning.
but the streets aren't paved with gold.
Of course they are not. If anyone really thought that then they were naive
no matter which country you live in, you need to pay the mortgage, graft and pay the bills.
I think some Brits see the USA as the easy life. It ain't. It's just as hard to live here as in any other 1st world country.
there is no American dream. just as there ain't no British dream, German dream, Dutch dream, etc etc.......
but the streets aren't paved with gold.
Of course they are not. If anyone really thought that then they were naive
I think some Brits see the USA as the easy life. It ain't. It's just as hard to live here as in any other 1st world country.
there is no American dream. just as there ain't no British dream, German dream, Dutch dream, etc etc.......
My Father always said the American dream was that your children be better off than you are. I doubt I will accomplish that (Mom and Dad did very well) but I am not hurting- and I hope my kids will be able to say the same...hopefully after college- whether that be in Spain or here. There are good and bad in all societies- one just has to weigh the pros and cons and make an informed decision.
Dec 25th 2007, 10:05 pm
#49
@matthewb76
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 21,886
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
My Father always said the American dream was that your children be better off than you are. I doubt I will accomplish that (Mom and Dad did very well) but I am not hurting- and I hope my kids will be able to say the same...hopefully after college- whether that be in Spain or here. There are good and bad in all societies- one just has to weigh the pros and cons and make an informed decision.
I believe that the 50's had it the best. and it's been a gradual downhill ever since.
just a personal opinion.
Dec 25th 2007, 11:07 pm
#51
Ivegotta Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 900
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
Rete.
The USA is a great country, honestly, it really is. In fact I'd say it may probably in the top 5 in the world in which to live.
But.........
it's not the be all and end all either. I think too much hype is believed on both sides of the pond as to how great it is.
When you get here and work here and live here, it's just an anticlimax.
.
The USA is a great country, honestly, it really is. In fact I'd say it may probably in the top 5 in the world in which to live.
But.........
it's not the be all and end all either. I think too much hype is believed on both sides of the pond as to how great it is.
When you get here and work here and live here, it's just an anticlimax.
.
Rob
Dec 25th 2007, 11:47 pm
#52
Maño-Americano
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: In the heart of the Ozarks
Posts: 10,216
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
Today, even most 'poor' kids have Adidas sneaks, and a game boy/Wii and three TV's.
Dec 26th 2007, 12:34 am
#53
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,338
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
Not entirely sure how you figure this one. Loafing around as a student, maybe. -Dan227
Hardly. I'm not at all a rich kid, I need to work in order to pay my tuition fees and yes that does mean doing 12 hour shifts a few days a week.
What I meant by stressful is that I get on London Underground everyday in the morning and see people rushing to work and then in the evening half asleep on the train. I feel as though people here in the UK work to live and not live to work.
.
Hardly. I'm not at all a rich kid, I need to work in order to pay my tuition fees and yes that does mean doing 12 hour shifts a few days a week.
What I meant by stressful is that I get on London Underground everyday in the morning and see people rushing to work and then in the evening half asleep on the train. I feel as though people here in the UK work to live and not live to work.
.
Last edited by Dan725; Dec 26th 2007 at 12:49 am.
Dec 26th 2007, 12:38 am
#54
Ivegotta Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 900
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
And you think you are going to be less stressed on the New York Subway? Commuting far out into Pennsylvania to find somewhere affordable to live? Don't be daft mate, its horses for courses. At least your average corporate London commuter is getting 5 weeks off a year as opposed to the 2 as they would be in New York. Not to mention the hours are generally longer here as well. It's only half an hour to an hour a day, but that mounts up.
Besides the awful medical situation here, that is the worst.
Dec 26th 2007, 12:41 am
#55
Feels great to be home!
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Steventon, Oxfordshire
Posts: 471
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
I don't think we're moaning.
but the streets aren't paved with gold.
no matter which country you live in, you need to pay the mortgage, graft and pay the bills.
I think some Brits see the USA as the easy life. It ain't. It's just as hard to live here as in any other 1st world country.
but the streets aren't paved with gold.
no matter which country you live in, you need to pay the mortgage, graft and pay the bills.
I think some Brits see the USA as the easy life. It ain't. It's just as hard to live here as in any other 1st world country.
I've lived here almost 30 years, most of that time as a single person. I have a graduate degree (MA) from an American university. But I'm in a relatively low-paid field, and I've pretty much always struggled financially. I did buy a house (in south Texas where real estate is cheap), but I had problems paying the mortgage and sold it rather than foreclose on it. My head's above water at the moment, but only just.
So I don't think I'm living any kind of "American dream."
Sarah
Dec 26th 2007, 12:49 am
#56
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,338
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
One week at a time if you are lucky - most people I knew when I was doing the 2 week thang (myself included) frittered it away on long weekends off and days here and there to try and get the most out of it - but you end up completely knackered, and certainly not unwound, as you say.
Dec 26th 2007, 1:09 am
#57
Bugger Off!
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,858
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
Well - I'd like to think we've advanced beyond "The Jungle" a smidge, though I'm sure a slaughterhouse is still a nasty, nasty, nasty place to work. Keep in mind that was set in a time period where people had few, if any options ... a bit different from today when many seem to quit their jobs on a whim as others lay just around the corner. At least we have OSHA today.
I do think the American Dream is alive and well. It's not going to be handed to anyone on a silver platter ... but I do think it exists for those who apply themselves. For instance, a good friend of mine came to the US from Vietnam as a little girl with her brother and parents. They were sponsored by a US group I believe, and arrived with only one bag. They are smart people and worked hard, and in just under 30 years have gone from nothing to owning a business, making a lot of $$ in real estate, and they now live in a large home in California. This is still a country where if one works hard, rewards can be had. That's not exclusive to the US of course, I would expect that it would be true of many western countries.
But it's still pretty damn cool imho.
I do think the American Dream is alive and well. It's not going to be handed to anyone on a silver platter ... but I do think it exists for those who apply themselves. For instance, a good friend of mine came to the US from Vietnam as a little girl with her brother and parents. They were sponsored by a US group I believe, and arrived with only one bag. They are smart people and worked hard, and in just under 30 years have gone from nothing to owning a business, making a lot of $$ in real estate, and they now live in a large home in California. This is still a country where if one works hard, rewards can be had. That's not exclusive to the US of course, I would expect that it would be true of many western countries.
But it's still pretty damn cool imho.
But, that isn't entirely what I was talking about. Yes, the working conditions have perhaps improved since then, but not the crap that food producers churn out to the nation. I heard a farmer on NPR the other day saying he would NOT eat his own corn if you paid him. It is so genetically modified that it is the worst corn in the world. Again, as with everything here (and more so than in, for e.g., the UK, where there are independent regulators of most industries, that are not on the bankroll) profit is king and to hell with the consumer.
Don't get me wrong, I like it here, but the american dream is just that. The rich get richer and the poor eventually die of overwork, lack of respect and lack of care by the nation they were brought up to love as the 'greatest nation on earth'.
That said, I have finally found salt and vinegar crisps so f cuk it!
Dec 26th 2007, 1:55 am
#58
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,669
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
Don't get me wrong, I like it here, but the american dream is just that. The rich get richer and the poor eventually die of overwork, lack of respect and lack of care by the nation they were brought up to love as the 'greatest nation on earth'.
That said, I have finally found salt and vinegar crisps so f cuk it!
That said, I have finally found salt and vinegar crisps so f cuk it!
Nickel and Dimed is an excellent book that is a real eye opener to the 'American Dream'. Thing is, I live in a state that is mostly wrinklies who have retired from up north. The non-wrinklies work these terrible jobs mostly, which they find in the service industry as there are few high-end jobs in the state. You really get to see the underbelly if you live down here for long enough.
In Europe, people in their 70's are traveling, enjoying life for the most part. They're not packing groceries in a supermarket in order to buy meds, or help pay for their ridiculous property tax. And before someone chimes in and goes on about them having made provision for their retirement, etc...I was here during the dotcom meltown. We know what the Enrons of the world did to so many of their funds. Wiped many people's pensions out.
Dog eat dog mate. And the American folk don't realize that for the most part, they are living in a very unhealthy society because it is all they know.
Yes, you can live the American dream. If you are somewhat smart enough. But let us face it, there are millions of Americans who are not the brightest tools in the shed and who will just not be able to advance up the college ladder, no matter how much they try. These are the janitors, the burger-flippers, the garbage men, etc..of the world. They do not live, and will never have the chance to live the American Dream. They live the American Nightmare.
And FYI mallory, I am not moving to Manchester but to my home country, which is one of the best on earth.
Last edited by Redlippie; Dec 26th 2007 at 1:57 am.
