advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permission
 

right, i was planning on taking my daughter to america for the summer holiday. we was going to go for 5 weeks. as i understand i cant take her for longer than 4 weeks without fathers permission. father has agreed to give permission for her to go for the 5 weeks, so i have been reading up about the letter that i need with his permission that would need to be presented at the airports, if asked for.

so i gathered i need a notarized letter. having contacted a solicitors that does these, only to realise he has NO i.d, no passport, no driving license, no tenancy agreement, no medical cards, no fixed abode so no letters proving address or anything! the only things he could scrape together would be a benefits letter and a a birth certificate, which the solicitors say is not enough.

so my question is has anybody been in this situation before?
will a none notarized letter signed by him be enough?
has anybody just used a normal letter with a contact number on for the border agency to call and check on the day if needed? thanks

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

I'm sorry, but I haven't been in your position so can only offer my layman's opinion. You can only offer what you've got so if it was me, i'd put together a formal looking typed letter and get the father to sign it and have someone of good standing witness it and yes, add a contact number.
Hopefully someone who's been through this will come along.
:fingerscrossed:

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Why not just go for 4 weeks and remove the element of worry?

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

A few years ago I took my son on holiday for 6 weeks to visit my family in the US. I am married to his father, however he didn't come with us on the holiday. So a slightly different situation, however I was never asked by anyone for a letter to state that the father gave me permission.

I believe it only comes up if the father pushes the situation. i.e. tells the police you took his child out of the country without permission. At that point you would need a letter stating that he gave you permission prior to taking your daughter out of the country.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

thanks lisa, i think im going to have to chance it and try that. hopefully if they wont accept that then they will just let us stay for the 4 weeks which is better than nothing. i wonder if it makes a difference the fact that her dad has has not signed her passport, as last time we went we only stayed for 2 weeks but when they stamped her passport on the stamp it said 25th october/january 23rd ? why was this if i didnt show a letter with permission that i could stay for longer than 4 weeks?

and i was thinking about just going for the 4 weeks but if theres a chance of spending an extra week with my fiance then i needed to see if there was a way around it seems we wont see each other until mid january next yr ;/

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

thanks for reply, its good to hear of someone who has done it, well this gives me more hope:thumbsup:

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Again, I must stress that ours was a slightly different situation as I am still married to the father.

Do you and your daughter have the same last name?

The reason I ask that is I wonder if more questions may be asked if she has a different name to you.

Also I will say that I travelled on my American passport and my son on his British passport (he only had a British passport at the time) and the only questions I was ever asked by Border control in the US was why have I not got his American passport yet. lol

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Because the VWP allows entry for up to 90 days

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

She has both our last names (double barrelled)
I guess ill just try the normal letter and hope for the best ;)

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

A simple letter stating the father gives permission to allow the child to travel to the US between certain dates, witnessed by and notarised by someone that does it will be fine.

You probably won't need it, but it is handy if you get asked at check in.

Length of trip is irrelevant.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Thanks bob but the father does not have the identification needed by the solicitors,That do the notarizing, this is my dilema :(

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Then find another person to notalise the letter.

All they are doing is confirming that the person who wrote the letter is the person they claim to be. You mention they had a birth cert, so that will do.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

I've only ever been asked once for 'the letter' when traveling with my daughter without my husband. This time was when I was passing through Canada on our way from California to England. We have different last names, she is on USA passport and I am on British. And the border agent who asked had no idea how long our trip was for, he just wanted to know if I had permission.

I looked shocked (after all, I visited 4 continents and multiple flights with her) and he just said, "next time you need a letter" but did nothing else. He did in fact ask my daughter, who was four at the time, who I was. Luckily she correctly identified me as Mummy; he then asked where Daddy was and she piped up "sailing!" (which was true). The poor guy probably felt sorry for me and let me go.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Perhaps the "magic language" with the father's signature will suffice:

"I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed on (date)

Print Name:

Signature:"


Ian

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Can I answer this as a retired Special Branch officer who use to enforce the Child Abduction Act at Heathrow airport, and made quite a few arrests for that offence.

First you need permission full stop, regardless of the time out of the country. The 4 weeks comes in as there is a statutory defense to an allegation of child abduction, if you were out of the country on holiday. After an absence of more than 4 weeks that defense doesn't apply. The child can be prevented from leaving the UK, even for an absence of less than 4 weeks.

I sometimes randomly stopped a single parent with a child. Quite often it could be sorted by speaking with the other parent on the telephone and a few quick checks, or a visit by the local police. If you have a letter (I don't remember ever seeing a notarized one) signed by the father, the father is contactable to verify the information, or you are traveling during such times as your solicitor is contactable if the father isn't, it is normally quickly resolved. That is if you are stopped at the exit controls, or the airline decide to call in the first place.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

But they are not leaving the USA they are traveling to it. They need to be able to leave where they are, which I took to be the UK. How would the penalty be enforced. :)

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

ohh i see, well thanks for that im glad the notarizing isnt a common thing, seems im not going to be able to get one, but the letters that you did see where they just handwritten ones ? or a fancy printed up type lol, and yes im in the uk, (will be flying from manchester to jfk)

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

D'Oh! Sometimes, I just want to shoot myself in the head. I presumed they'd be travelling to the US and permission would be a concern upon entering the US... as opposed to a concern leaving the UK.

Ian

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

i thought the same thing, that i would more than likely be asked for it when i get to the us, rather than when im leaving the uk :o

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Either, I've seen all sorts in my time. The important thing is to have someone available who can vouch for you, and whose bona fides can be verified. I would never hesitate to carry out whatever checks it took to make sure the child was OK to leave the UK. Having said that in the ordinary course of things you are not likely to be stopped or have a problem. The great majority have no problem at all. How old is the child?

Arrival in the US, no more than the usual formalities.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

She will be just turned 6 on the day we fly, does age make anything different? its great to have your input! :starsmile:

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

The reason I asked is twofold. If I thought the child was capable of understanding what was happening I would often ask them why they were traveling.

I had an eight year old tell me once they were going on holiday and it must be costing dad a lot of money as he had sold everything in the house to pay for it. :lol:

I see you use miss in your username. Were you and the father married, and if not is he named on the birth certificate?

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Just curious, how would you check that you really were speaking to the father?

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Call his work and speak to his boss and then have him put on the phone. Send a local officer to his house, or work, verify his identity and then call me and put him on the phone.

Run his name through the PNC etc and then call and ask questions to verify he is who he claims to be. Bottom line any doubt the child is not allowed to travel.

But just about all cases come to notice because a parent has notified police of the possibility of the child being removed. The odds of airline or immigration staff on exit controls, or a random stop, finding a actual child abduction are small. Most genuine people traveling with a child never encounter any problems.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Thanks for the info.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Someone hinted at the word 'Canada' which might be important here.

Canada (and Mexico) are VERY strict on the letter. I've seen many other message boards talk about the very real need for a letter of a specific type and form for people traveling through Canada, so if your flight has a layover there you might need to double check.

In the US, which does not have exit controls basically, it's the airlines that do (or do not) ask for the letter. Each airline has their own policy, so you can double check with the airline and whether or not you actually get asked is really down to the person behind the counter and how they are feeling that day. To be honest, with online checkin and automatic bag drops now days, often times you don't even see a person behind the counter anymore.

*lansbury -- when you did arrests, were they for 'notorious' abductions--i.e. someone was really trying to skip out without the other parent's knowledge, middle of the night kind of thing? I imagine some people might have missed their flights if you were busy checking on folks credentials and whatnot, but those might not have resulted in arrests.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

I have arrested quite a few people for actual child abductions, where they were in fact attempting to remove the child permanently from the UK without leave of the Court or with the required consent. Both fathers and mothers, but mainly fathers.

We arrested an airline captain who refused to return to the gate when directed to do so. He took off with a child on board who was being abducted. The captain was arrested when he returned to the UK. His defense was it was unsafe to return to the airport having taken off. That resulted in a legal definition of when an aircraft has taken off.

People did miss flights. On only one occasion did an airline refuse to rebook the person on the next flight without any additional charge, and quite often we would get them an upgrade to recompense for the hassle.

One on an American Airlines flight to Chicago. It was two hours into the flight when the abduction was discovered, and I can still here the plaintive plea from the ground staff to not ask them to bring the aircraft back. I called the FBI at the Embassy who had the FBI in Chicago contact the immigration supervisor at ORD to verify who I was and then I called them. The father was traveling on the VWP and I convinced the guys at ORD he was not eligible to do so because he had been arrested in the past for a CIMT. They put him and child on next plane to Heathrow. Useful having a knowledge of US immigration procedures.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Wow!

I know this is going totally off-topic but I feel so sad, horrified and disgusted when I read about those poor young teenage girls who have grown up in the UK but the cultural background is from Pakistan. Time and time again there are reports that they have been taken to 'visit relatives' in a Pakistani village and forced into an arranged marriage. Those who have refused to do so have often been murdered by their parents/brothers/uncles etc. :(

I wonder if you ever felt suspicious or had a 'gut feeling' about some scenarios where families were travelling from LHR to Karachi or Lahore but were unable to do anything about it?

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

We once cost Parkistan International Airlines £88,000 for a delayed flight. I was working with a colleague whose family came from that part of the world. There was a family traveling and the teenage girls body language was just wrong. We ask questions got nowhere, delayed boarding did some checks, got nothing. Let them board, by now the flight was about 45 minutes late. It taxied out, we went for a coffee, walking to the coffee shop my collegue qhad second thoughts so I phoned the control tower and told them to bring it back to the gate. By the time we off loaded the family and bags the flight finally left two hours late. Pakistan government contacted the F&CO demanding payment. Fortunately my collegue sensed it right, a 15 years old being forced into an arranged marriage. Not a child abduction in the sense being discussed here, but nice to have been able to stop it.

If in doubt there is always the powers to protect a child and take them to a place of safety.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

I'm a single parent and when travelling to the U.S. was asked by U.S. immigration if my children's father knew we were travelling to which I responded that I was in fact bringing our children to see him and promptly showed my divorce paperwork showing I have custody.

I have travelled with my kids many times and apart from that one incident have never been questioned.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Well done. I hope they didn't or couldn't try again later.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

oh my daughter would certainly spill all if i had something to hide she is such a chatterbox lol

no we were never married but he is on the birth certificate and she has both our surnames.

just out of curiosity how did you get into that kind of job? it sounds like a very interesting job!

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

OK as he is on the birth certificate you do need his permission. I was checking to see if legally he had parental responsibity under the Child Abduction Act, he does.

I was a Special Branch detective for a lot of my career. In those days Special Branch officers were posted to ports to gather intelligence on persons who might be concerned with terrorism. We work(ed) alongside immigration officers, had offices airside in the terminals, worked closely with airline staff and had access to the reservation systems, so Special Branch took on the prevention part of child abduction at ports. Much easier for us to do, and we could respond quicker than uniform officers from the airport police station.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

US residents Hubby and 2YO daughter will be traveling to the UK next month, without me, for his father's 80th.

Last time he did this, he had no problems leaving the US but when they arrived back in the USA he was asked for a letter from the child's mother.

The conversation was effectively ended by our then 22 month old daughter: when hearing her father give my name she interrupted with "Mommy (insert ozzio's real name), Daddy Rob" and then gave Rob a snuggle.

The US immigration officer "told" Rob that he needed a "permission to travel letter from the child's mother".

Suggested wording appreciated please.

And on a side note, how will they know the letter is actually from me? And why was I not questioned on the occasions that I traveled alone with said child? Grrr.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

It's all hit or miss, but provide info where you can be contacted easily, with someone/where that can verify you, such as a work number.

Notarised letter stating that you are mum and you give permission for dad to travel to/from US/UK with your child, name/dob.

Re: advice needed on taking daughter on holiday for 5 weeks/ fathers letter of permis
 

Hit or miss is right. Effectively a single parent also, I take my son to and from England, and his father has taken him to and from Mexico. We have always had a letter ready. Notaries public here are so easy to find and you can get the letter signed at a Currency Exchange for $2. However, we have never been asked to produce said letter anywhere. My son travels on a U.S. and a U.K. passport, as do I, and his father on a Mexican passport.