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Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

Old Aug 28th 2002, 12:17 pm
  #31  
Jan
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Default Re: Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

for strange read 'desperate' ..... seemingly to get a wife on his terms only too

jan "Michael Voight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > You went to visit her and dined at 5 star restaurants, then told her to wait two
    > extra months so she wouldn't have to live with a starving student????
    > You promised her a BMW on arrival...
    > And you think her focus was on your money??
    > Sorry, but I think your courting methods are very strange.
 
Old Aug 28th 2002, 12:39 pm
  #32  
Ready
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I concur why would go see a woman and just flaunt and flash money in her face?
.........What kind of woman are trying to attract basically?? What do you expect for
doing this? Try the other way around and see what you get. You probably won't need a
"prenup" if doesn't know about until she gets here. It would just icing on the cake.
Playing the dirt poor roll was easy for me since I am, but I'd still do to find a
good (true) woman. Of course I don't have to worry about this, my baby is perfect :O)
Just my two cents on this matter.
 
Old Aug 28th 2002, 1:16 pm
  #33  
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In article <[email protected]>, Rete says...

    >Geez I had a great time, physically and emotionally and socially, with many of the
    >men I dated in my 27 years of being a divorced mother before my remarriage. Only
    >one of them did I want to marry. The others I just enjoyed ;-)

Hey Rete... one of them wasn't called "Mark", was he...?

-katie
 
Old Aug 28th 2002, 1:25 pm
  #34  
Nomen
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Default Re: Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

The prenup is not a guarantee.

From what you've said it sounds like the only way for you to keep her is by feeding
her $$$. If you have any doubt about this marriage, DON'T DO IT! She'll break your
heart. Give it time. Visit her in her country but remember, holiday is not everyday.

Many of us here have gone the K-1 route. We're all giving you the same
advice. Red Flag.




"thuan001" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I met my lady fiancee 2 weeks ago, I agreed to bring her to US. However, I told her
    > that I would delay her K1 application for 2 months to make sure that by the time it
    > is approved, I would have graduated from the Univ of Penn MBA program. I explained
    > to her that I want to make sure that she has a good life and doesn't suffer a
    > student's poor life. However, she demanded that I file the K1 right away. Of
    > course, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking this this might be a marriage of
    > convenience. So, I said that if she signed a prenuptial agreement, I would be
    > willing to file her K1 immediately. She would not sign despite the fact that I
    > told her I needed the prenuptial prior to my trip. She said that she changed her
    > mind, because the only thing that I cared about was money. Basicly, I told her
    > that the prenuptial won't kick in unless she plans on divorcing me after receiving
    > the green card. Now, she tells me that America isn't so good, and that she could
    > marry a rich businessman within her own country. I was flabbergasted! In our phone
    > conversation, she told me her main concern was love and not for money. I even told
    > her that even if she divorced me after receiving the green card, I would not do
    > anything to hurt her legally or financiallly. After all, I understand that she is
    > just trying to improve her life. She told me that she expected a signficant chunk
    > of my asset ( I have about a million dollars in real estate) if our marriage does
    > not work out. Basicly, I told her that I am not going to process the K1 unless she
    > signed the prenuptial. It has been a week, and she refused to answer my phone
    > calls or emails. I am stil in love with her, but apparently she lost interest in me
    > in a matter of few hours. To the girls out there, I think most of the guys are
    > really sincere about their love, but some fiancee are really into the money despite
    > wha they told us over the phone. I would advise all petitioners to get the
    > prenuptial signed before processing the K1. You can find out rather quickly if the
    > love or money. Just my 2 cents.
    > Originally posted by Dave:
    > > Shows what a good pussy, er, possie can do for you...
    > >
    > > "Baird"
    > > > Thanks again,
    > > >
    > > > The sheriff will appreciate all your hard work.
    > > >
    > > > > > It's "You're an idiot."
    > > > > classic.
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Aug 28th 2002, 2:40 pm
  #35  
Andrew Defaria
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Default Re: Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

gardencity wrote:

    > I read the threads herein and I see so much generalisation.
    > Qs:
    > 1.What makes one so sure it is always a case of the pursuit for a Green Card, and
    > not good old fashion LOVE? such as based on the large number of posters in this
    > NG, particularly those who have jumped the hoop and are helping those yet to...

Oh I don't know. Perhaps the fact that there are literally thousands of women from
Russia and the Ukraine, etc listed on thousands of sites looking for "love" outside
their country. Some sites let you specify by country. If you specify by a more "up
beat" country like say France or Germany then the numbers drop dramatically to like
10 or so. Hmmm... 7000 or 10. What does that tell ya? Yes women in those countries
(economically or politically deprived) wanna get out and they will marry to do it.
Doesn't really sound like love to me. Does it to you?

In their defense, however, most want more than just to get out of their country and
over to a country whose standard of living is way above other countries (i.e. the
US). Most also want a loving and caring relationship, home, family, etc also. But if
you attempt to deny that "escaping their situation in their country" is not a large
component of their decision is to simply stick your head in the sand.

    > 2.What makes it so definite that it is always a case of marrying out of poverty
    > into wealth?

Perhaps because in many, many instances it is!

    > There are poor brides/grooms in the US too....

Not to the same extent. For example, many people in the Ukraine make $100 - $200 per
month. I would venture to guess that even a homeless person standing on the side of
the road begging for change in the US makes more than that! (It's just a guess though
I've heard from some that they average around $20/hour when begging. Don't know if
it's true or not).

    > 3. Isn't marriage in itself a 'sacred instituionf' and that entering into it is a
    > sort of a 'gamble', regardless of whether it is trans-national, East-to-West or
    > simply locally?

Add to it the real possibility that somebody in another nation may not view marriage
as a "sacred institution" at all! There are cultural differences and differences in
perception that are exasterbated by these cultural differences.

    > People change, you know.

Largely no they don't. They change real slowly over time and only because they want
to. Many, many marriage fail because one partner or the other expects to "change" or
"fix" their partner. In the long run this rarely works that way.

    > Especially in an entirely new environment, anything can happen.

Adding to it uncertainty. When you talk to your partner from another nation,
especially one whose environment is radically different, you can attempt to describe
how it is different in your country. Your partner may even tell you how he or she
thinks they would react and operate in such a new environment. However, as you know,
it's rarely exactly how you expected it. Very often such cross cultural relationships
experience extreme hardship in the beginning as the people adjust to their new
environment precisely because it is not exactly how they envisioned it.

    > Adapters, to a new environment or a new way of living i.e. coupledom vs singlehood,
    > thrive and those who cannot, will not survive.

Some survive and some do not. Much pressure and stress is usually experienced. Truth
is you just cannot say and additionally, most people do not handle even little
changes well - extreme changes evoke extreme reactions.

    > 4.Why in the world would one, from Thuan's case, 'touch upon the subject of
    > marriage' based on knowing the other party just for 2 weeks?

That is odd. One thought is that perhaps he had corresponded with this lady for quite
some time and his statement of "I met my lady fiancee 2 weeks ago" meant that he
finally went out there and met her in person. Only he can answer that one though.

    > Perhaps Thuan, like a lot others out there with the supposed 'Trump Card', is
    > 'guilty' of using the GC as a 'temptation'? No one knows. Only he himself.

He did later say that he had a great time with her. Don't sound like any kind of
"Trump card" but who knows.

    > As an Asian, a Singaporean, I have been doing research on East-West romance for
    > some time. While I contend that there are the 'pure GC grab-and-dump' cases, on the
    > other side of the coin, there are those 'Trump (Green) Card' holders who use that
    > to their advantage for 'fun, sex, etc'. We ought to look at each case with
    > uniqueness, rather than stereotyping.

Yes we oughta. Like we oughta not be lumping groups of people into such labels as the
"pure GC grab-and-dump" cases and the "Trump (Green) Card" case. Oh those indeed
categories and yes people do fit into such categories. It's not bad to categorize,
just realize that there are always exceptions. And, I happen to think that the above
two categories are the minority categories.
 
Old Aug 31st 2002, 6:53 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

Andrew

Thanks for your input. Interesting responses that added 'certain breath' to my views. In the spirit of 'agreeing to disagree', I'd like to say the following:


Originally posted by Andrew Defaria:
gardencity wrote:

    > I read the threads herein and I see so much generalisation.
    > Qs:
    > 1.What makes one so sure it is always a case of the pursuit for a Green Card, and
    > not good old fashion LOVE? such as based on the large number of posters in this
    > NG, particularly those who have jumped the hoop and are helping those yet to...

Oh I don't know. Perhaps the fact that there are literally thousands of women from
Russia and the Ukraine, etc listed on thousands of sites looking for "love" outside
their country. Some sites let you specify by country. If you specify by a more "up
beat" country like say France or Germany then the numbers drop dramatically to like
10 or so. Hmmm... 7000 or 10. What does that tell ya? Yes women in those countries
(economically or politically deprived) wanna get out and they will marry to do it.
Doesn't really sound like love to me. Does it to you?

In their defense, however, most want more than just to get out of their country and
over to a country whose standard of living is way above other countries (i.e. the
US). Most also want a loving and caring relationship, home, family, etc also. But if
you attempt to deny that "escaping their situation in their country" is not a large
component of their decision is to simply stick your head in the sand.
I am no ostrich. I do not deny the 'facts of life' that some has to underrake. All I'm saying is that each case ought to be given the merit of being 'analysed uniquely'. That's all.

I do agree with most of your reasoning. Thanks for another perspective.

    > 2.What makes it so definite that it is always a case of marrying out of poverty
    > into wealth?

Perhaps because in many, many instances it is!

    > There are poor brides/grooms in the US too....

Not to the same extent. For example, many people in the Ukraine make $100 - $200 per
month. I would venture to guess that even a homeless person standing on the side of
the road begging for change in the US makes more than that! (It's just a guess though
I've heard from some that they average around $20/hour when begging. Don't know if
it's true or not).
LOL. Thanks. Point taken.


    > 3. Isn't marriage in itself a 'sacred instituionf' and that entering into it is a
    > sort of a 'gamble', regardless of whether it is trans-national, East-to-West or
    > simply locally?

Add to it the real possibility that somebody in another nation may not view marriage
as a "sacred institution" at all! There are cultural differences and differences in
perception that are exasterbated by these cultural differences.
I do not think this is a fair statement. Perhaps if it is said in the context of 'just somebody' and not 'somebody in another nation'. If you look at the other angle, it could be that that 'somebody' is not 'that of the other nation' but 'that of the USC'. I'm merely putting the foot in the other boot.

Also, as far as viewing 'marriage as a sacred institution' or not, I don't think cultural differences have got much, if anything, to do with such a view. Differences in perception, yes, perhaps in as much as, for eg, one's upbringing and/or one's educational/growth process are concerned.


    > People change, you know.

Largely no they don't. They change real slowly over time and only because they want
to. Many, many marriage fail because one partner or the other expects to "change" or
"fix" their partner. In the long run this rarely works that way.
Point taken. How about this: they change but at different pace and in different direction? (LOL, but it's true.)


    > Especially in an entirely new environment, anything can happen.

Adding to it uncertainty. When you talk to your partner from another nation,
especially one whose environment is radically different, you can attempt to describe
how it is different in your country. Your partner may even tell you how he or she
thinks they would react and operate in such a new environment. However, as you know,
it's rarely exactly how you expected it. Very often such cross cultural relationships
experience extreme hardship in the beginning as the people adjust to their new
environment precisely because it is not exactly how they envisioned it.
Point taken. Which is why I feel some of the INS' procedural requirement/bureaucracy are the 'necessary evil'. Even then, it baffles me to read of cases where one would cross the globe for another without having even set foot onto that soil/land. I guess I don't know and I won't. I guess it's a matter of 'hobson's choice' for those. Sure hope majority of them survive and thrive.

    > Adapters, to a new environment or a new way of living i.e. coupledom vs singlehood,
    > thrive and those who cannot, will not survive.

Some survive and some do not. Much pressure and stress is usually experienced. Truth
is you just cannot say and additionally, most people do not handle even little
changes well - extreme changes evoke extreme reactions.
Point taken.


    > 4.Why in the world would one, from Thuan's case, 'touch upon the subject of
    > marriage' based on knowing the other party just for 2 weeks?

That is odd. One thought is that perhaps he had corresponded with this lady for quite
some time and his statement of "I met my lady fiancee 2 weeks ago" meant that he
finally went out there and met her in person. Only he can answer that one though.
Point taken.

    > Perhaps Thuan, like a lot others out there with the supposed 'Trump Card', is
    > 'guilty' of using the GC as a 'temptation'? No one knows. Only he himself.

He did later say that he had a great time with her. Don't sound like any kind of
"Trump card" but who knows.
Indeed. Who knows...

    > As an Asian, a Singaporean, I have been doing research on East-West romance for
    > some time. While I contend that there are the 'pure GC grab-and-dump' cases, on the
    > other side of the coin, there are those 'Trump (Green) Card' holders who use that
    > to their advantage for 'fun, sex, etc'. We ought to look at each case with
    > uniqueness, rather than stereotyping.

Yes we oughta. Like we oughta not be lumping groups of people into such labels as the
"pure GC grab-and-dump" cases and the "Trump (Green) Card" case. Oh those indeed
categories and yes people do fit into such categories. It's not bad to categorize,
just realize that there are always exceptions. And, I happen to think that the above
two categories are the minority categories.
The 'lumping/labeling' was just to make a point from 'the unofficial research findings'. How else can one reflect 'research findings' if not to 'boxed or lumped' ?

Having said that, I SHOULD have been CLEARER to add that these are merely TWO BOXES out of the few and that THESE TWO BOXES do reflect the minority.

Thanks again, Andrew. Good day!
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Old Sep 1st 2002, 5:06 pm
  #37  
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gardencity <[email protected]> wrote in
news:402320.1030820015 @britishexpats.com:

*snip* I think the fact that a film like Birthday Girl exists in the first place is
indicative enough of the situation as it is...

--

Targaff
 
Old Sep 1st 2002, 6:42 pm
  #38  
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Originally posted by thuan001:
I met my lady fiancee 2 weeks ago, I agreed to bring her to US. However, I told her that I would delay her K1 application for 2 months to make sure that by the time it is approved, I would have graduated from the Univ of Penn MBA program. I explained to her that I want to make sure that she has a good life and doesn't suffer a student's poor life. However, she demanded that I file the K1 right away. Of course, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking this this might be a marriage of convenience. So, I said that if she signed a prenuptial agreement, I would be willing to file her K1 immediately. She would not sign despite the fact that I told her I needed the prenuptial prior to my trip. She said that she changed her mind, because the only thing that I cared about was money. Basicly, I told her that the prenuptial won't kick in unless she plans on divorcing me after receiving the green card. Now, she tells me that America isn't so good, and that she could marry a rich businessman within her own country. I was flabbergasted! In our phone conversation, she told me her main concern was love and not for money. I even told her that even if she divorced me after receiving the green card, I would not do anything to hurt her legally or financiallly. After all, I understand that she is just trying to improve her life. She told me that she expected a signficant chunk of my asset ( I have about a million dollars in real estate) if our marriage does not work out. Basicly, I told her that I am not going to process the K1 unless she signed the prenuptial. It has been a week, and she refused to answer my phone calls or emails. I am stil in love with her, but apparently she lost interest in me in a matter of few hours. To the girls out there, I think most of the guys are really sincere about their love, but some fiancee are really into the money despite wha they told us over the phone. I would advise all petitioners to get the prenuptial signed before processing the K1. You can find out rather quickly if the love or money. Just my 2 cents.
I dont mean to sound blunt and to the point, but after reading your story, I'd drop this women like a hot cake. Money grabbing and marriage of convience springs to mind.
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Old Sep 1st 2002, 7:59 pm
  #39  
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Thuan,
The way I see it, if you have enough doubts to require a prenup, then don't do it yet. Marriage is an extremely big deal, it is meant to be for life, and you just can't enter into something like that if you have doubts. Believe me, I am talking from experience...I was married once before...I was only 23 years old, I had doubts popping up left right and center, and I didn't listen to them - telling myself "when will you ever meet someone again who loves you enough to marry you...this may be your only chance..yada yada". The result? The next 6 years of my life were sheer, ****ing, ever living hell.
When I met my real wife two years ago, I just knew she was the one. It is very hard to explain, but a lot of people from this ng will know what I mean...you just know it in your bones. In my case, it took making the biggest mistake of my life to make me mature enough to know a good woman when I met one, and to know that I was sure I wanted to marry her.
I sympathize with what you are going through, but the truth is, if she loves you she will wait if you tell her that you need to take your time with such a big step. If she won't, then she was never worth your time, and you lose nothing, even though it sure won't feel like it.
Now about the problem of you having a bit of money (I say "a bit", because although $1m is quite a big bit, a greedy woman will spend that in no time if you let her). Sorry but some of this is your fault. I mean, you promised her a frickin BMW? Now I know a lot of guys want to show off, but this is ridiculous. Think about how this sounds from the other end - "if you marry me I will buy you a nice car". You're complaining about being judged by the fact that you have money, when you sold yourself as being this guy with a lot of money who will spend it on her!!! Honestly, the next lady you meet, for God's sake, leave the money out of it!

Anyway, just my 2c. Hope it works out well for you.

-Harry
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Old Sep 1st 2002, 10:17 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

Originally posted by Katie:
In article <[email protected]>, Rete says...

    >Geez I had a great time, physically and emotionally and socially, with many of the
    >men I dated in my 27 years of being a divorced mother before my remarriage. Only
    >one of them did I want to marry. The others I just enjoyed ;-)

Hey Rete... one of them wasn't called "Mark", was he...?

-katie
LOL Nah none of them were "Marks" but some said I left marks ;-)

Rete
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Old Sep 2nd 2002, 12:54 am
  #41  
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Harry,

Thanks for telling me about your ex-wife. That was nice of you to share that with us. To put everything in perspective, I am 31 years old. I never met a girl that I really fell in love with until I met this girl. Considering that I am 31 years old, when will I find another opportunity where a girl is willing to marry me? To be frank, I don't receive that many marriage proposals. American girls are interested in tall men, however I am considered short. Yes, it was a dumb move to promise her a BMW on my part. She lives in Hong Kong, so it is not a part of the world where rich men are rare. Mercedes and BMW automobiles are as common as Toyotas. But, I fell head over heel when I met her, so I foolishly made some stupid promises. At any rate, she called me yesterday and agreed to sign the prenup. She said that she was just looking for a honest man to marry, and she agreed that if she ever leaves me in the United States, she will leave empty handed. According to her, she is not into money, but just a better life with a good husband.



Originally posted by Harry:
Thuan,
The way I see it, if you have enough doubts to require a prenup, then don't do it yet. Marriage is an extremely big deal, it is meant to be for life, and you just can't enter into something like that if you have doubts. Believe me, I am talking from experience...I was married once before...I was only 23 years old, I had doubts popping up left right and center, and I didn't listen to them - telling myself "when will you ever meet someone again who loves you enough to marry you...this may be your only chance..yada yada". The result? The next 6 years of my life were sheer, ****ing, ever living hell.
When I met my real wife two years ago, I just knew she was the one. It is very hard to explain, but a lot of people from this ng will know what I mean...you just know it in your bones. In my case, it took making the biggest mistake of my life to make me mature enough to know a good woman when I met one, and to know that I was sure I wanted to marry her.
I sympathize with what you are going through, but the truth is, if she loves you she will wait if you tell her that you need to take your time with such a big step. If she won't, then she was never worth your time, and you lose nothing, even though it sure won't feel like it.
Now about the problem of you having a bit of money (I say "a bit", because although $1m is quite a big bit, a greedy woman will spend that in no time if you let her). Sorry but some of this is your fault. I mean, you promised her a frickin BMW? Now I know a lot of guys want to show off, but this is ridiculous. Think about how this sounds from the other end - "if you marry me I will buy you a nice car". You're complaining about being judged by the fact that you have money, when you sold yourself as being this guy with a lot of money who will spend it on her!!! Honestly, the next lady you meet, for God's sake, leave the money out of it!

Anyway, just my 2c. Hope it works out well for you.

-Harry
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Old Sep 2nd 2002, 1:09 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

I noticed there were some discussions regarding my relationship.

I corresponded with the Hong Kong girlfriend for about 6 months prior to visiting her. In addition, I averaged 5 hours of phone calls per week for the entire 6 months. Therefore, when we met, it felt like we knew each other for a long time. Strange, but it does feel that way. At the present time, she is like my best friend. Basicly, I can just grab the phone and talk about anything with her.

About the GC trump card comment. I am certain the GC issue is a small part of the decision for her to marry me. However, I cannot say it is a major part of her decision. After all, we really do get along very well. One taxicab driver said that she was surprised how well we conversed in the cab and asked us if we were getting married.
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Old Sep 2nd 2002, 5:58 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

Originally posted by thuan001:
I noticed there were some discussions regarding my relationship.

I corresponded with the Hong Kong girlfriend for about 6 months prior to visiting her. In addition, I averaged 5 hours of phone calls per week for the entire 6 months. Therefore, when we met, it felt like we knew each other for a long time. Strange, but it does feel that way. At the present time, she is like my best friend. Basicly, I can just grab the phone and talk about anything with her.

About the GC trump card comment. I am certain the GC issue is a small part of the decision for her to marry me. However, I cannot say it is a major part of her decision. After all, we really do get along very well. One taxicab driver said that she was surprised how well we conversed in the cab and asked us if we were getting married.
From your other message you said as if you're so old. 31 is not old ok? You have a lot of time to find someone. But seems to me that you're going to marry this girl anyway.
I just feel that there's something fishy going on... but who am I to judge. You're a smart man so good luck with your decision.
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Old Sep 2nd 2002, 10:44 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

Yes, I do realize that I need to feed her $$$ to keep her. However, I have taken her to indoor shopping malls and basicly said you can buy anything that you like and I will pay for it. She brought an umbrella and an answering machine on two different ocassions. In my opinion, those are not terribly expensive items by American standards. I was testing how frugal she was. The American girls that I dated are into Tiffany necklaces and full length "Gucci" leather jackets. Yes, they do sell Tiffanyy and Gucci merchandise in Hong Kong. Just take a walk in the typical American shopping malls, and you will see many, many 20-ish American girls carrying 5-6 bags of merchandise as if money grew on trees.

She said that she needs an umbrella because it rains often where she lives. And, the answering machine was so she can intercept my calls in case she wasn't home.




Originally posted by mailmena:


From your other message you said as if you're so old. 31 is not old ok? You have a lot of time to find someone. But seems to me that you're going to marry this girl anyway.
I just feel that there's something fishy going on... but who am I to judge. You're a smart man so good luck with your decision.
thuan001 is offline  
Old Sep 2nd 2002, 10:08 pm
  #45  
Michael Voight
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Additional: Disappointed Fiancee

I still don't understand why you wanted to delay the K-1 by two months on the grounds
that you didn't want her to be left with a starving student. She has 6 months to
enter the US after she gets the visa, which will probably take at least 6 months.
Note: I am referring to the reason you gave for the K-1 delay. I would think that
knowing someone for only 2 weeks would be reasonable enough for a delay.



thuan001 wrote:
    > Harry,
    > Thanks for telling me about your ex-wife. That was nice of you to share that with
    > us. To put everything in perspective, I am 31 years old. I never met a girl that I
    > really fell in love with until I met this girl. Considering that I am 31 years old,
    > when will I find another opportunity where a girl is willing to marry me? To be
    > frank, I don't receive that many marriage proposals. American girls are interested
    > in tall men, however I am considered short. Yes, it was a dumb move to promise her
    > a BMW on my part. She lives in Hong Kong, so it is not a part of the world where
    > rich men are rare. Mercedes and BMW automobiles are as common as Toyotas. But, I
    > fell head over heel when I met her, so I foolishly made some stupid promises. At
    > any rate, she called me yesterday and agreed to sign the prenup. She said that she
    > was just looking for a honest man to marry, and she agreed that if she ever leaves
    > me in the United States, she will leave empty handed. According to her, she is not
    > into money, but just a better life with a good husband.
 

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