angelman

So now I am doing some research into this 2014 law of which I was not aware of until now.
This article seems pertinent though I am not quite sure what they mean when they say the IRS collects money direct from a bank. How can I know if my UK bank will do this and what money will they take? http://www.klasing-associates.com/ir...l-critici.html I have currently more then $50k in a UK account. Maybe I should just move it all stateside (been waiting for favourable exchange rate mostly) or maybe just distribute it amongst various bank accounts in the UK.

ClosedAcc 7654

My last comment. I do find it irritating that we should be accused of scaremongering, and panicking. I find those comments unhelpful and indicitive of denial. Research it yourselves and decide for yourself. It's up to you.

Trust me, we are of stern constitution and do not panic. The only way $52k gets pried out of our clutches is a situation where we are utterly convinced the downside is far greater and the odds are against us. We are certain to be identified as our UK accounts use our US address. Despite our tax owed being a net refund if they allowed refunds past 3 years, even without that we only owed $1k over 8 years. Not exactly the crime of the century but we would be ruined if we didn't take care of matters and got caught no matter how innocent we are.

Good luck however you handle it.

angelman

The really galling thing here is that there are no clear guidelines. Nobody has clear answers. I have researched the topic extensively. Looking at websites from CPAs, multinationals, bulletins from deloitte and touche, all kinds and the general message is we "The IRS doesn't really have clear guidelines on the minutiae of every situation (how can they rule on every single investment and setup for every country in the world!) and just makes it up as it goes along". It's all a game.. just like the entire tax setup in the US. This is what makes me want to give up my green card and go somewhere else.. I have no problem paying tax it's all this BS I can't bear.

Elvira

Please could I ask you to comment/elaborate once more?

In your initial post you referred to "$12k attorney fees".

Could you clarify what this was for? Presumably all your subsequent actions were in line with the advice of an attorney/attorneys.

I'd be interested to know whether the way your proceeded was reliant upon the advice of just one attorney, or did you seek a second opinion?

MidAtlantic

The problem with your postings is that you have not given us enough information to understand what you are saying. You indicate that it was a trivial situation yet you settled for $52k. It was either not trivial or you were appallingly advised.

And was the real issue failure to complete tax information or failure to file FBARs? The two are quite separate.

transatlantic_chap

I too have just become concerned about FBAR -- we moved from the US four years ago, and since that time our UK account has typically had around £5,000 in it, rising occasionally to more like £7K or £8K shortly after payday, before being gradually chipped back down again.

In other words our account has only occasionally peeped over the top of the $10,000 cutoff point, but I am still eager to be in full compliance. I have been filing my US taxes each year, but without the FBAR bit included. Would a series of 1040X filings be in order, along with a visit to the FBAR online filing page? How worried should I be?

nun

If you are like 99% of folks and have a few thousand dollars of cash in foreign accounts and are over the FBAR threshold I would just make sure you file correctly in the future.

I can understand failing to file FBAR, but omitting foreign interest etc is more difficult to understand as that strikes me as more willful. Still make sure you include foreign interest and gains on your US taxes in the future. What you want to do about past years and whether you file amended returns is the area of difficulty and worry for many people.

Now that you are aware of your US tax filing obligations the difficulty becomes understanding your cross border taxes and the issues with foreign pension plans and foreign pooled investments, dividends, capital gains, endowment mortgages and etc etc. But at least you can now take action to rid yourself of US tax inefficient foreign assets.

Simply ignoring or being ignorant of your tax circumstances is sort of like not dealing with a lump you might find on your body. It might be benign and you can live with it for the rest of your life, or it might be cancerous, either way a sensible person gets it checked out and deals with it.

nun

Have you paid US tax on any interest on the account?

I would not be too concerned. Certainly file FBAR from now on. If there is no US tax due on past 1040s I would probably not file 1040X, if tax is due I would file the 1040X.

angelman

It may sound ridiculous but sometimes one has accounts that have been forgotten about and laid dormant for a long time. I think things like employer pensions, old TESSA accounts (pre ISA) etc. In my case I only just rediscovered my old stakeholder pension and on a recent visit (very occasional) visit to the UK was reminded of an old TESSA account I had had a very long time ago which over time has built up into something not insignificant. I maybe willfully careless in "forgetting" these accounts existed but I bet many people have such accounts lying around which they certainly havent declared on their FBAR or even taxes. I have been declaring interest and values on FBAR on all my main UK savings accounts though

celticgrid

That you suggest the comments are unhelpful and "indicitive of denial" means that you are effectively just ranting. My comments, far from being based on denial, are based on having to catch up with missed FBARs and dealing with the same authorities that you have dealt with. Hardly denial.

The facts of the matter are that you have had a bad experience. That's bad news. However, it doesn't mean everyone else will have a similar bad experience. It's all down to the individual situation and the approach. My situation was different to yours, and I'll guarantee my approach (and manner of that approach) was totally different.

As per MidAtlantic's post, you haven't provided anywhere near enough detail for anyone to judge whether their own situation is similar to yours. I would therefore agree with one thing you have said, in that people should acquaint themselves with the reporting responsibilities and make an informed decision on how to progress.

celticgrid

Note that whether the amount is in one account or twenty accounts, your reporting obligations remain the same.

nun

I'm sure people forget about old accounts all the time......but that isn't an excuse the IRS will accept. But the bigger issue is that so many people seem to be so disengaged from their finances. Is it fear of numbers and maths? If fear of FBAR is helping people to find accounts that they'd forgotten about maybe the IRS should be thanked rather than feared.

lansbury

Like yourself we missed a couple of years of FBAR forms, while full US tax was paid on the money in those accounts. As soon as we realized the error, thanks to BE, we completed the form going forward. We have not been asked to account for the years we didn't file or been sent any warning letters, stern or otherwise.

I have found JAJ comments on dealing with missed forms to be very sound. Of course his comments assume that all tax has been correctly paid, but if only forms have been missed how is anyone going to know if you failed to file or only just reached the threshold to file in the year you first submit a form. Likewise if one year you don't file FBAR because you didn't reach the threshold I can hardly see letters being sent demanding to know why.

angelman

I am fully aware that I am responsible for all my accounts and the IRS doesnt care if I just "forget" about them. I am actually very much on top of my finances and accounts in general. That said accounts which are rarely if ever touched can get left by the wayside. I believe there are millions if not billions of $ in dormant accounts of one form or another waiting to be claimed. There are websites setup to help people claim pensions etc. that they maybe never even knew they have. I just resent the incredibly punitive nature of this whole reporting thing. I understand the intent is to rein in offshore accounts and tax evasion which is fine but as usual the US and IRS lacks any concept of grey only black or white. Anyway I guess I will just start reporting this accounts and hope for the best.

robin1234

Agreed, and what gets me is that they are very happy to shift all the cost of regulatory compliance to the individual and foreign institution, with no need to account for whether it is a sound investment of money - because the cost of compliance is borne by the punter, whereas the $$ yield comes to the US government....