Moving?

Sorry... off topic...

dgsyd1 - whereabouts in Lansing are you? You're not the guy in Forest Road who had a UK and US flag on your porch are you? Or with a UK flag on the front of your car I've seen around MSU in the past.... are you?

GaryK

One person flying from London Heathrow to Glasgow by plane would produce about 0.17 tonnes of carbon dioxide. That is naturally 17 tonnes for 100 passengers.

If one person were to drive to Glasgow in a medium-sized car, the average emissions would be at around 0.12 tonnes. Taking the train would naturally produce even less. The simple fact is that short-haul flights are detrimental to the environment.

As for long-haul flights: flying from London to New York produces between 1.5 and 2 tonnes of carbon dioxide altogether. I'd say that there's a good reason to try to limit this.

I'd guess that if you're willing to pay thousands of £££ for a seat in the first place, you don't really care if the taxes are going to increase by £20 or £40.

As for comments about being indoctrinated into believing in climate change by living in the UK: I don't think it's a question of being indoctrinated. I think it's a question of looking at the science behind it and deciding what is and what isn't moral environmental behaviour. I would say that the general attitude in the U.S. towards the environment tends to be quite careless (with some exceptions of course, like the Sierra Club). I might even go as far as to say that people living in the U.S. are being indoctrinated to ignore environmental matters to a great extent.

BigDavyG

Take a look and ask yourself this - if you want to cut down CO2 emissions does it really make sense to target the smallest source ???

GaryK

Well, we're not talking about the situation U.S. here, are we? In the United Kingdom aviation accounts for about 5.5 per cent of emissions at the moment.

The problem is that you get a distorted view of the situation by simply looking at a contemporary snapshot of the emission situation. The fact is that aviation is the fastest growing producer of CO2 emissions, and according to some estimates, aviation will account for 10 per cent of emissions by 2030 if measures are not taken. At the moment aviation represents the largest threat to the government's goal of notably cutting carbon emissions in the upcoming decades.

BigDavyG

That 10% is not a concrete figure and is based on current growth rates being maintained.
It still leaves air transport as a minor figure.

In my opinion governments are now taking the easy way out. They have failed miserably to make any progress on this issue for years and now are picking a new target to go for.
I pass dozens of huge jeeps containing a driver and no passengers every day - why not tax these monsters off the road first ??

And as has already been pointed out the UK acting alone will have a minimal impact - this is a revenue raising initiative by the government, plain and simple.

elfman

You mean like this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/6146442.stm

Muswell Hill

Just to play devils advocate, Stanford Uni published a report yesterday stating that the winds in the southern oceans have changed direction over the past 50 years and are now blowing in a more southerly direction. This will take more CO2 to be dumped in the oceans as colder water absorbs more CO2 so the report says.

I also read that if the UK stopped ALL CO2 emissions, the new emissions from china would take only 180 days to reach the UK levels.

The FT on thursday had a great article stating the public coffers of the teasuary are in a shitty state and need to be filled, hence the 'green with envy' taxes.

My big question, will it be possible to audit the government and see every penny spent on green taxes going towards enviro projects, cheaper public transport........no, i didn't think so. Just another tax grab from Brown.

Utter B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S

Muswell Hill

But why use the stick and no carrott? Tax them off the road, more tax for this, more tax for that is all I hear from the UK gov. How about first investing in the railways, maybe even renationalising them? Build a high speed network all over the country, and integrate buses at the stations which run very frequently.
Next invest in projects like nuclear fusion, more efficient solar, better batteries for electric cars. Taxing people to change habits won't work, just breed resentment. A comprehensive policy of investment into public transport FIRST, offering real choices for people where the speed of the journey is much quicker will induce people to take the bus and leave the car at home, not because it's cheaper but quicker.

The spineless governement have done nothing in the area of transport policy and won't do anything except tax, tax, tax.

I also read that travellers will have to pay the new green with envy tax from midnight last thursday, presenting the airlines with the problem of how to collect it. The response from the treasury????? The airlines should absorb this cost rather than trying to collect it. (From the FT Thursday 7th dec)

BigDavyG

Actually I was kind of referring to the US with that point but I did mean tax them off the road, not just charge their owners a few quid extra a week - after all most of the owners can prob afford it anyway and already are able to shoulder the burden of the extra tax/duty they pay due to the poor fuel consumption of these vehicles.

BritGuyTN

Crikey

So I had probably not take my Avalanche with me to the UK? :scared:

Not that I would. Not sure the road of leafy hertfordshire are designed for it...

BritGuyTN

Even more crikey.

Just checked the database for all the cars I have ever owned in the UK (a total of three)

2 would be band F and the other band G

The 2 'F' ones are 2 litre engines for christ sake and the 'G' is 2.5 litre

I think that new ramp up in prices is blatant racketeering

Dogbyte

I appreciate that the vast majority on this thread are in the US but I would like to see the general public obey the government on one day.I mean everyone leave their cars at home and decide what a normal time would be to set off for work on public transport(about 1 hour is reasonable).On that day everyone should turn up at their local railway station or bus stop to catch the wonderful public transport that this governent say we should use and say is available.Then watch the country go into choas as people arrive at work hours late or not at all, to show this munch of idiots in power that it does, and will not, work, however THEY think it would.I know this would never happen as we know that brits would just say, but I must be in work,Ive got a lot to do.Or if I get in late I wont be paid. But it would be interesting ?

Jenster

The thing that gets me is when you don't drive you don't live in a place where it's going to take three trains and two buses to get to work. When you drive you don't think about how you'll get to work when your car gets too expensive. The money saved on not having a car buys you the same house but within a much more reasonable commute time.
The reason the rest of the EU doesn't put their airport tax up is that they tax people enough already. Brits don't know they've got it made, here in Holland average income tax is 42% and once you earn anything decent it's 52%. Add council tax, mandatory private health insurance and 19% VAT to that and the UK looks like a tax haven. Most other EU countries are the same.

Muswell Hill

Is healthcare not free for the Dutch and resident non-Dutch?

BigDavyG

Err - like the UK its a progressive taxation system - you only pay 42% on income over a certain amount. Below that amount you pay less than 10% and I think the 42% threshold is a lot higher than the UK's equivalent level - over 20k pa I think.