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Pulaski Apr 28th 2013 12:18 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Scouse Express (Post 10681584)
Mother overheard "discussing Jihad" - Extradite her back here asap! ....[/url]

With half a million names in the TIDE database, it appears that US government agencies have been busy building their own haystack to search through. :rolleyes:

Merely collecting names is utterly pointless if you don't have a plan to do something meaningful with those names. :unsure:

Gordon Barlow Apr 28th 2013 4:39 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 
It's not a popular thing to say, I know, but why are we all so reluctant to look at terrorist activities within the US in the wider context of terrorist activities elsewhere in the world - particularly, US terrorist activities in the Middle East? The US's inexorable drone program alone is infinitely more effective in killing innocent people than occasional incidents like the Boston IEDs.

I'm not trying to be provocative, here, or even to push a bleeding-heart human-rights agenda - but fair's fair. To Americans, these two Chechyen fanatics are Bad Guys, and so are the misguided people who support them. But to Afghanistanis and Pakistanis, the serial-killer drone "pilots" are Bad Guys, and so are the misguided people who support them.

If the US government would stop its terrorist program against Moslems, would Moslems stop their terrorist program against Americans? I guess we'll never know.

scrubbedexpat099 Apr 28th 2013 4:55 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 10682253)
It's not a popular thing to say, I know, but why are we all so reluctant to look at terrorist activities within the US in the wider context of terrorist activities elsewhere in the world - particularly, US terrorist activities in the Middle East? The US's inexorable drone program alone is infinitely more effective in killing innocent people than occasional incidents like the Boston IEDs.

I'm not trying to be provocative, here, or even to push a bleeding-heart human-rights agenda - but fair's fair. To Americans, these two Chechyen fanatics are Bad Guys, and so are the misguided people who support them. But to Afghanistanis and Pakistanis, the serial-killer drone "pilots" are Bad Guys, and so are the misguided people who support them.

If the US government would stop its terrorist program against Moslems, would Moslems stop their terrorist program against Americans? I guess we'll never know.

There is no programme against Moslem's.

Interesting that the US's first overseas adventure did involve them.

I would agree that most of this is a complete waste of resources, seems Syria is next on the list according to Barry.

Why is difficult to discern. Causes more problems than is solves.

Pulaski Apr 28th 2013 4:57 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 10682253)
..... If the US government would stop its terrorist program against Moslems, would Moslems stop their terrorist program against Americans? I guess we'll never know.

I don't remember much, if any, direction military action in the Middle East or muslim world in the ten years prior to 9/11, with Desert Storm being the previous military action in early 1991. So I would hazard a guess that ceasing the drone program would not be the entire solution.

Of course, that muslim nationalists still get bent out of shape over the crusades 800 years later (and that was a series of conflicts that the muslims eventually WON), would suggest that placating them is likely a very long term project! :rolleyes:

dakota44 Apr 28th 2013 5:38 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 10682269)
I don't remember much, if any, direction military action in the Middle East or muslim world in the ten years prior to 9/11, with Desert Storm being the previous military action in early 1991. So I would hazard a guess that ceasing the drone program would not be the entire solution.

Of course, that muslim nationalists still get bent out of shape over the crusades 800 years later (and that was a series of conflicts that the muslims eventually WON), would suggest that placating them is likely a very long term project! :rolleyes:

I believe most of the damage was done by our support of people like Saddam Hussein , The Shah of Iran, and numerous others. In the case of the Shah, we helped overthrow the legitimate government and install him and as a result he would torture and kill countless Iranians. Saddam did the same in Iraq. We supplied Saddam with weapons against Iran, and Iran with weapons against Iraq. We looked away when Saddam used gas on the Iranians as well against their own citizens. We facilitated and supported the rule of despots all over the Middle East and they in turn committed far more mayhem against their people than we commit with drone attacks. We did not need to engage in direct military action. We were doing enough damage behind the scenes.

Nokoman Apr 28th 2013 5:51 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 10682253)

If the US government would stop its terrorist program against Moslems, would Moslems stop their terrorist program against Americans? I guess we'll never know.

And the Brits, Spanish, Australians, Russians, Indians, Bali.. etc etc.

scrubbedexpat099 Apr 28th 2013 6:12 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 
The Iraq/Iran war was one of the few successes.

Gordon Barlow Apr 28th 2013 6:22 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Nokoman (Post 10682336)
And the Brits, Spanish, Australians, Russians, Indians, Bali.. etc etc.

Well of course. But this thread's topic is about Boston, USA; therefore it is the US program against Moslems that is relevant, not the other nations' programs.

Pulaski Apr 28th 2013 6:57 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 10682373)
.... therefore it is the US program against Moslems that is relevant, .....

As noted by Boiler above, there is no US program against muslims.

scrubbedexpat099 Apr 28th 2013 7:09 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 10682373)
Well of course. But this thread's topic is about Boston, USA; therefore it is the US program against Moslems that is relevant, not the other nations' programs.

Programs such as Tide are not restricted to Moslem's.

Gordon Barlow Apr 28th 2013 9:47 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 10682406)
As noted by Boiler above, there is no US program against muslims.

Ah well, perhaps I should have written US "perceived'' program against Moslems. My bad.

Pulaski Apr 28th 2013 11:34 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by dakota44 (Post 10682324)
I believe most of the damage was done by our support of people like Saddam Hussein , The Shah of Iran, and numerous others. In the case of the Shah, we helped overthrow the legitimate government and install him and as a result he would torture and kill countless Iranians. Saddam did the same in Iraq. We supplied Saddam with weapons against Iran, and Iran with weapons against Iraq. We looked away when Saddam used gas on the Iranians as well against their own citizens. We facilitated and supported the rule of despots all over the Middle East and they in turn committed far more mayhem against their people than we commit with drone attacks. We did not need to engage in direct military action. We were doing enough damage behind the scenes.

Do you really think they are avenging political wrong- doing (regime overthrow and despot support) from 30-40 years ago? I mean, the Shah of Iran was ousted 34 years ago! OK, I know I talked about some of them still being bitter about the crusades, but seriously!!

I suspect that the real reason is that small number, relative to the total number of muslims really do believe in wiping out the nonbelievers, and if that is the case there really is no end in sight to the bloodshed, and withdrawal of western forces is not going to stop more Bostons occurring. :scaredhair:

Ichigo-chan Apr 28th 2013 11:42 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 
In the case of the dumb ass brothers, I think their religion had little to do with their actions. The younger one looks especially stupid - he could probably been recruited by the KKK if he had lived in a different city etc.

scrubbedexpat099 Apr 28th 2013 11:55 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 10682701)
Do you really think they are avenging political wrong- doing (regime overthrow and despot support) from 30-40 years ago? I mean, the Shah of Iran was ousted 34 years ago! OK, I know I talked about some of them still being bitter about the crusades, but seriously!!

I suspect that the real reason is that small number, relative to the total number of muslims really do believe in wiping out the nonbelievers, and if that is the case there really is no end in sight to the bloodshed, and withdrawal of western forces is not going to stop more Bostons occurring. :scaredhair:

That area does have a penchant for Despots, I do remember the Shah being overthrown, out of the frying pan into the fire.

Part of the problem seems to be that there is a magic solution, history says otherwise.

dakota44 Apr 28th 2013 11:56 pm

Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 10682701)
Do you really think they are avenging political wrong- doing (regime overthrow and despot support) from 30-40 years ago? I mean, the Shah of Iran was ousted 34 years ago! OK, I know I talked about some of them still being bitter about the crusades, but seriously!!

I suspect that the real reason is that small number, relative to the total number of muslims really do believe in wiping out the nonbelievers, and if that is the case there really is no end in sight to the bloodshed, and withdrawal of western forces is not going to stop more Bostons occurring. :scaredhair:

The point was that we had meddled in the Middle East or most of the 20th century, and of course so far all of the 21st. Yes, dislike and even hatred can fester and grow for decades, even centuries. The violence between sects and ethnic groups in many parts of the world are continuations of centuries old disputes, wars and/or atrocities. So in answer to your question, absolutely it can have much to do with it. As for something that happened 30 or 40 years ago...we still have people pissed that they lost the civil war and acting accordingly while talking about the need for another to avenge that loss.


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