2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
Apr 23rd 2013, 1:18 am
#556
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Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
You're misunderstanding the conflict that I grew up in. Yes, it is often portrayed as a religious conflict but this is simply not true. If it was, what was the religious goal of the IRA campaign? There was none. Not all Catholics supported the IRA. Not all IRA members were even Christians at all never mind Catholics. The IRA even had some Protestant members. So it was not a religious conflict.
The IRA's stated agenda was removing Northern Ireland from the UK and creating a united Ireland (there was nothing stated about religion - in fact they stated that Protestants had nothing to fear from a united Ireland in which the resulting country would have a significant Protestant population.)
It was a political conflict. Yes, most Nationalists/Republicans identified themselves as being Catholic - but not all were. Most Unionists/Loyalists identified themselves as being Protestant - but not all were. The political leaders skillfully used this perception of it being a religious war for their own ends. Some even doubled up as religious leaders (e.g. Ian Paisley).
How could the conflict be a religious one when the religious differences between Catholics and Protestants (both Christians after all) are so minor? What minor religious difference was one side trying to impose on the other? Even different Protestant sects have religious differences from each other. Anglicans and Catholics have a lot of similarities.
The IRA's stated agenda was removing Northern Ireland from the UK and creating a united Ireland (there was nothing stated about religion - in fact they stated that Protestants had nothing to fear from a united Ireland in which the resulting country would have a significant Protestant population.)
It was a political conflict. Yes, most Nationalists/Republicans identified themselves as being Catholic - but not all were. Most Unionists/Loyalists identified themselves as being Protestant - but not all were. The political leaders skillfully used this perception of it being a religious war for their own ends. Some even doubled up as religious leaders (e.g. Ian Paisley).
How could the conflict be a religious one when the religious differences between Catholics and Protestants (both Christians after all) are so minor? What minor religious difference was one side trying to impose on the other? Even different Protestant sects have religious differences from each other. Anglicans and Catholics have a lot of similarities.
I think Sunni and Shi'ite are also very similar in theological terms.
Apr 23rd 2013, 9:31 am
#557
Often not so civil...
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Boonies, GA
Posts: 9,561
Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
One of my main irritations.
It's ONLY the Union Jack when it's flown from a ship, otherwise it's the Union FLAG
It's ONLY the Union Jack when it's flown from a ship, otherwise it's the Union FLAG
Apr 23rd 2013, 1:27 pm
#559
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Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,837
Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
Its the Union Jack, because I am not in the navy and do not have to follow their rules.
Apr 23rd 2013, 1:31 pm
#560
I have a comma problem
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Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
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Apr 23rd 2013, 1:49 pm
#562
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Location: WA
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Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/l...the-union-jack
Last edited by kimilseung; Apr 23rd 2013 at 1:53 pm.
Apr 23rd 2013, 1:58 pm
#563
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Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
I come from a Catholic family in N. Ireland. Two of my sisters married Protestants. One was married in a Catholic church and is raising her children as Catholics. The other was married in a Protestant church and is raising her children as Protestants. Both families were represented at both weddings in large numbers - no-one had any issues about being in the church of a different faith. This was actually typical of the town I grew up in and in many other towns across N. Ireland. Catholics and Protestants were often related to each other. I have Catholic & Protestant nieces and nephews in N. Ireland.
Now I do have different political views from my brothers-in-law but none of us even think or speak in terms of religious differences - it simply never comes up. The conflict has simply never been framed that way for us. None of us have any problems at all with the other side of the argument in terms of religion. The differences are purely political - although religious tradition certainly helped form political views. But also remember that there are many people who are not religious at all. Many who are tagged as "Catholic" or "Protestant" don't even attend church anymore.
As I said before, you will certainly find people who will try to frame the conflict in religious terms for their own ends. But that doesn't make it a religious conflict by any stretch.
Apr 23rd 2013, 2:42 pm
#564
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Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
From my perspective of someone who has never actually visited NI, things like Holy Cross have perpetuated an impression of a Catholic vs Protestant divide. I remember the nightly news at the time and was horrified at the actions of all parties. Unfortunately, it's the kind of thing that sticks in people's memories.
Apr 23rd 2013, 5:13 pm
#565
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Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
Right - but, again, these "huge divisions" were political in nature. If you think of it as a religious war, then of course you will be perplexed. It was not a religious war (an oxymoron if ever I heard one anyway).
I come from a Catholic family in N. Ireland. Two of my sisters married Protestants. One was married in a Catholic church and is raising her children as Catholics. The other was married in a Protestant church and is raising her children as Protestants. Both families were represented at both weddings in large numbers - no-one had any issues about being in the church of a different faith. This was actually typical of the town I grew up in and in many other towns across N. Ireland. Catholics and Protestants were often related to each other. I have Catholic & Protestant nieces and nephews in N. Ireland.
Now I do have different political views from my brothers-in-law but none of us even think or speak in terms of religious differences - it simply never comes up. The conflict has simply never been framed that way for us. None of us have any problems at all with the other side of the argument in terms of religion. The differences are purely political - although religious tradition certainly helped form political views. But also remember that there are many people who are not religious at all. Many who are tagged as "Catholic" or "Protestant" don't even attend church anymore.
As I said before, you will certainly find people who will try to frame the conflict in religious terms for their own ends. But that doesn't make it a religious conflict by any stretch.
I come from a Catholic family in N. Ireland. Two of my sisters married Protestants. One was married in a Catholic church and is raising her children as Catholics. The other was married in a Protestant church and is raising her children as Protestants. Both families were represented at both weddings in large numbers - no-one had any issues about being in the church of a different faith. This was actually typical of the town I grew up in and in many other towns across N. Ireland. Catholics and Protestants were often related to each other. I have Catholic & Protestant nieces and nephews in N. Ireland.
Now I do have different political views from my brothers-in-law but none of us even think or speak in terms of religious differences - it simply never comes up. The conflict has simply never been framed that way for us. None of us have any problems at all with the other side of the argument in terms of religion. The differences are purely political - although religious tradition certainly helped form political views. But also remember that there are many people who are not religious at all. Many who are tagged as "Catholic" or "Protestant" don't even attend church anymore.
As I said before, you will certainly find people who will try to frame the conflict in religious terms for their own ends. But that doesn't make it a religious conflict by any stretch.
Thanks for the insight Maryland Ned, it's always good to hear from people's actual experiences without the journalistic filters applied in the tv and newspapers.
From my perspective of someone who has never actually visited NI, things like Holy Cross have perpetuated an impression of a Catholic vs Protestant divide. I remember the nightly news at the time and was horrified at the actions of all parties. Unfortunately, it's the kind of thing that sticks in people's memories.
From my perspective of someone who has never actually visited NI, things like Holy Cross have perpetuated an impression of a Catholic vs Protestant divide. I remember the nightly news at the time and was horrified at the actions of all parties. Unfortunately, it's the kind of thing that sticks in people's memories.
Apr 23rd 2013, 7:00 pm
#566
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Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
Maher is a half-educated bundle of arrogance and conceit who will say or imply anything to get a snicker out of his partisan audience. He could have and should have put all his comments in context; Islam is like a dog that if attacked will bite back. Europe's and America's political leaders - for their own unsavoury reasons - chose to attack the sleeping dog that was the Islam world, and blow me down if the thing didn't start biting back. Shock! Horror!
Apr 23rd 2013, 7:19 pm
#567
Often not so civil...
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Boonies, GA
Posts: 9,561
Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
I had never heard of Bill Mayer until 20 minutes ago. Now I wish I hadn't.
Apr 23rd 2013, 7:53 pm
#568
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Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,837
Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
Sally, I've just this minute forced myself to watch the clip of his interview in which he scoffed at Islam, and to be fair to the smug bastard I don't think he quite said that only Muslims perpetrate acts of terror. What he did was imply that all Muslims are excessively defensive about certain aspects of their religion, and (essentially) that the Islamic "world view" tolerates acts of terror in a way that non-Muslims don't. Oh, and that Islam was the most violent religion in this year of 2013.
Maher is a half-educated bundle of arrogance and conceit who will say or imply anything to get a snicker out of his partisan audience. He could have and should have put all his comments in context; Islam is like a dog that if attacked will bite back. Europe's and America's political leaders - for their own unsavoury reasons - chose to attack the sleeping dog that was the Islam world, and blow me down if the thing didn't start biting back. Shock! Horror!
Maher is a half-educated bundle of arrogance and conceit who will say or imply anything to get a snicker out of his partisan audience. He could have and should have put all his comments in context; Islam is like a dog that if attacked will bite back. Europe's and America's political leaders - for their own unsavoury reasons - chose to attack the sleeping dog that was the Islam world, and blow me down if the thing didn't start biting back. Shock! Horror!
Apr 23rd 2013, 10:41 pm
#569
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
Sally, I've just this minute forced myself to watch the clip of his interview in which he scoffed at Islam, and to be fair to the smug bastard I don't think he quite said that only Muslims perpetrate acts of terror. What he did was imply that all Muslims are excessively defensive about certain aspects of their religion, and (essentially) that the Islamic "world view" tolerates acts of terror in a way that non-Muslims don't. Oh, and that Islam was the most violent religion in this year of 2013.
Maher is a half-educated bundle of arrogance and conceit who will say or imply anything to get a snicker out of his partisan audience. He could have and should have put all his comments in context; Islam is like a dog that if attacked will bite back. Europe's and America's political leaders - for their own unsavoury reasons - chose to attack the sleeping dog that was the Islam world, and blow me down if the thing didn't start biting back. Shock! Horror!
Maher is a half-educated bundle of arrogance and conceit who will say or imply anything to get a snicker out of his partisan audience. He could have and should have put all his comments in context; Islam is like a dog that if attacked will bite back. Europe's and America's political leaders - for their own unsavoury reasons - chose to attack the sleeping dog that was the Islam world, and blow me down if the thing didn't start biting back. Shock! Horror!
He also made a comment about Britain (and France) maginalising immigrants which seemed a bit arbitrary.
Apr 24th 2013, 1:39 am
#570
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Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon
I think if anyone is truly religious and follows the teachings of their God (whoever that God might be), then they would not perpetrate acts of terror at all. However, we're all human and we have many faults and weaknesses. Even religious people sin at times. To say that terrorism is perpetrated only by Muslims is obviously complete nonsense.