MarylandNed

Agreed although the abortion clinic attacks probably stem from a religious belief to a greater degree - completely warped as that may be.

I grew up in Northern Ireland during the worst of The Troubles and I knew many people who were actively involved. The IRA campaign's goal had absolutely nothing to do with religion at all. Its goal was political - to remove Northern Ireland from British rule and reunite it with the rest of Ireland. There was no desire to impose religious beliefs on anyone or wipe out another religion (although at times it was hard to know this). The religious differences between Catholics and Protestants is actually very minor when you consider the many similarities.

The IRA's tactics were brutal. While most IRA members and supporters were Catholics, there were actually some Protestant members too. There were many Catholics who did not support the tactics and even some who did not even support the cause of a united Ireland. I also knew Protestants who did support a united Ireland. So to say the IRA campaign was somehow a religious one is just complete nonsense.

kimilseung

I find this a difficult one, on the face of it, it was an obvious direct nationalist movement. But nationalist struggles are about culture, if everything is the same, then there is nothing to break away from, so...how much of that culture comes from or is linked to Catholicism? In Ireland I would say quite a lot.

MarylandNed

Yes religion is a part of culture but the actual culture of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland is really not that different at all. Catholics and Protestants are both Christian religions and the differences between them is really quite minor. There is a sizable Protestant population living quite happily in the Republic of Ireland. The Troubles were borne from a completely different view on politics and a mistrust of each other which manifested itself in civil rights violations. In comparison, religion played almost no part at all except as a convenient gang label that seemed useful in differentiating the two sides.

Giantaxe

When I walk past the folks camped outside my local Planned Parenthood clinic, they certainly seem to wrap their protest in Christian religion in general.

Sally Redux

What about all the 'No popery' stuff?
Yes he falls down in the world view area.

MarylandNed

Interesting article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ora-sandy-hook

Lion in Winter

Economics, with an overlay of religion. As I understand it, the Protestants in Ireland were often the instrument of British/English rule and prospered from that position - they were often the landed, well-to-do gentry in an otherwise very poor country. Some of my ancestors were among them, all prior to the division of Ireland. Protestants continued to support British rule, not surprisingly.

UkWinds5353

When I first read your comment my initial response was "OMG" are we really asking people,groups,nations to censor themselves to this degree.But then the conservative side of me was reminded of the British thinking on this type of thingy.

In the UK flying the Union Jack can be seen as a huge negative in the minds of many Brits.But to me it should be celebrated as a symbol of British pride. Some in the UK view the Union Jack as a symbol of nationalism,some even view it as a form of attempting to dominate other people,maybe even a symbol of racism.Imo, some people can look at a chant,flag ect and perceive it totally out of proportion. I still love the Brits though.

Sally Redux

I don't see how it can be 'nothing to do with religion' when you had/have different streets/schools/political parties for catholic and protestant.

Lion in Winter

I don't think it is nothing to do with religion, just that economic and political status have become enmeshed with religion.

Lion in Winter

I think you may be thinking of the England flag, rather than the Union flag, and its use by right-wing nasties, extreme nationalists, and also by football hooligans. Nationalists would, and do, tend to favour their own flags of England, Wales, Scotland, etc, and not the Union flag which may be considered a symbol of oppression from the point of view of the nationalist. Wales isn't even represented on the Union flag.

Sally Redux

Sorry not a direct quote of you, your points made me think back to MarylandNed.
The NF did use the union jack, but luckily that has been reclaimed somewhat.

Buddhist violence in Burma:

MarylandNed

You're misunderstanding the conflict that I grew up in. Yes, it is often portrayed as a religious conflict but this is simply not true. If it was, what was the religious goal of the IRA campaign? There was none. Not all Catholics supported the IRA. Not all IRA members were even Christians at all never mind Catholics. The IRA even had some Protestant members. So it was not a religious conflict.

The IRA's stated agenda was removing Northern Ireland from the UK and creating a united Ireland (there was nothing stated about religion - in fact they stated that Protestants had nothing to fear from a united Ireland in which the resulting country would have a significant Protestant population.)

It was a political conflict. Yes, most Nationalists/Republicans identified themselves as being Catholic - but not all were. Most Unionists/Loyalists identified themselves as being Protestant - but not all were. The political leaders skillfully used this perception of it being a religious war for their own ends. Some even doubled up as religious leaders (e.g. Ian Paisley).

How could the conflict be a religious one when the religious differences between Catholics and Protestants (both Christians after all) are so minor? What minor religious difference was one side trying to impose on the other? Even different Protestant sects have religious differences from each other. Anglicans and Catholics have a lot of similarities.

Lion in Winter

Did they? I remembered incorrectly then. Either way, they can't have it or any other flag It does not belong to them. Which means that it matters how it's used - context is all. Flags can be used for aggressive xenophobia and as a symbol of dominance - or not.

kimilseung

I think one of the reasons behind the revival of the Flag of St George was because of a sense that the battle for the Union Jack had been lost. Although the successful reclaiming of the St Georges cross also brought about a reclaiming of the Jack.