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2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Old Apr 21st 2013, 10:07 pm
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
The TV was on in the background last night ( I think it was baseball) and someone was praising the rescue workers - fine - then they have to add that "Only in America, the greatest doctors and nurses in the world" or similar words. WTF
The US probably does have the best healthcare in the world. There are more world class hospitals and other facilities here than anywhere else in the world. You hear about plenty of Brits and others going to the US for complex treatment that just isn't available in their home countries - you rarely if ever hear about people making the reverse journey from the US to elsewhere (except maybe for routine treatment for cost purposes). The health INSURANCE system in the US....now that's a different matter altogether. But if you have access to it, it is probably the best HEALTHCARE system in the world.
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Old Apr 21st 2013, 10:13 pm
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow View Post
To my mind, the alternative media is the hope of the US. They don't always get it right, but they aren't afraid to ask awkward questions that the MSM generally doesn't do. Might the Twin Towers bombers have had inside help? Might the FBI have been aware of the Boston bombers ahead of time? Might the Boston extreme over-reaction have been a trial run for a Police State? Might Guantanamo be a genuine torture-chamber used for training purposes, with no public-safety justification? Going back a bit, might the CIA have facilitated the murder of JFK?

I think Europeans in general are more open to the possibility that their rulers are jerking them around. Their history is there to remind them of that. For most Americans, fervent tribal patriotism gets in the way of questioning the official version of events.
Your way of thinking is not limited to doubt, it is that of the conspiracy theorist who infers that the government is always lying, even when they are lying, if you get my drift.Do they lie and cheat, absolutely yes, but implode the Twin Towers, absolutely ridiculous.
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 12:05 am
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by MarylandNed View Post
The US probably does have the best healthcare in the world. There are more world class hospitals and other facilities here than anywhere else in the world. You hear about plenty of Brits and others going to the US for complex treatment that just isn't available in their home countries - you rarely if ever hear about people making the reverse journey from the US to elsewhere (except maybe for routine treatment for cost purposes). The health INSURANCE system in the US....now that's a different matter altogether. But if you have access to it, it is probably the best HEALTHCARE system in the world.
The best for a select few hardly makes it the best!!
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 12:07 am
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by paddingtongreen View Post
Your way of thinking is not limited to doubt, it is that of the conspiracy theorist who infers that the government is always lying, even when they are lying, if you get my drift.Do they lie and cheat, absolutely yes, but implode the Twin Towers, absolutely ridiculous.
I gave those examples of questions that the alternative media aren't afraid of ASKING and the MSM is. Don't jump to unjustified conclusions, Paddington.
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 12:13 am
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by MarylandNed View Post
But if you have access to it, it is probably the best HEALTHCARE system in the world.
A healthcare system necessarily includes the ability of people to access it. On that score the US fails miserably.
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 1:29 am
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/17/he...e=buffer&_r=2&

Here is a scary article in the NY Times on the topic. Extract: "hospitals have little incentive to improve: in fact, some will wind up losing money if they take better care of patients."
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 1:48 am
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by MarylandNed View Post
The US probably does have the best healthcare in the world. There are more world class hospitals and other facilities here than anywhere else in the world. You hear about plenty of Brits and others going to the US for complex treatment that just isn't available in their home countries - you rarely if ever hear about people making the reverse journey from the US to elsewhere (except maybe for routine treatment for cost purposes). The health INSURANCE system in the US....now that's a different matter altogether. But if you have access to it, it is probably the best HEALTHCARE system in the world.
I'm not even convinced about that. There's plenty of world-class treatment available in the UK.
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 1:50 am
  #473  
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow View Post
I gave those examples of questions that the alternative media aren't afraid of ASKING and the MSM is. Don't jump to unjustified conclusions, Paddington.
Here's the problem; the alternative media doesn't just ask questions, they push the theory. they feed off each other, much in the way Fox News does. One person asks, "Is it possible that the government imploded the towers? Just asking." Next guy, "Questions being asked about ...." Next guy, "Accusations that the US government..." The next thing you know, the alternative media is carrying a full blown conspiracy theory that the government imploded the towers.

And you think they are the hope of the US.
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 6:12 am
  #474  
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Er, Bluegrass Lass is an American. Of course not all Americans think or behave in the same way, or believe the same things. Why would they.


Having thought about it, I think that the difference between the "USA, USA" chant and things like the "Engerland" of football or Swing Low Sweet Chariot of rugby is that the USA things carries an aggressive feel of "we're the best, nobody is as good as us in any way and we are going to assert our dominance" whereas the others carry more the meaning of "we support our country/team."
Are those the exact words of the Americans, or is that the way you enterpreted the meaning behind the sentiments expressed?

I'm not sure how we could interpret the thinking of every American in those crowds shouting "USA USA USA". I imagine it can mean various things to the cross section of people in those crowds. Wouldn't be shocking at all if some of those people in the crowds are brand new Americans. Some could be from various regions of the world and are simply showing support to a country that was attacked on 911 and recently has experienced a very violent attack in Boston. Not a bad time to be supportive.
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 6:32 am
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by Bluegrass Lass View Post
You probably don't know me, since I've never chatted with you before, but I am an American, born and raised, as are all my family going back many generations. I didn't pick up on a 'letting off steam' mentality at all from the cheering. To be perfectly honest, I don't really care what the reason for that USA cheering, I can't stand the "USA" chant in any context whatsoever. I always turn the sound off or change the channel whenever I see it happen on tv, and I've certainly never participated in a "USA" chant and I never will.
BlueGrass Lass

No, haven't spoken with you before but let say it's nice to meet you.

There is nothing wrong with a person not feeling comfortable doing any certain act if that act doesn't feel natural to them.But I'm sure you can see how other people can appreciate your thinking on this topic yet feel completely ok with the performance of that act.

I look at it in the same way I view a gathering at a bonfire.It's not really the fire that they are gathering for.Its more of a inspiration to work as a group type thing. And in this case the gathering is to support a wounded city that was attacked during the Boston Marathon. its not the equivalent of a gathering like Guy Fawkes Night, that has political over-tones. To me the whole , "USA USA" chant says, you can kick me when I'm down but I'm going to get right back up!! And I'm thinking how can that be a bad thing.
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 6:38 am
  #476  
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
BlueGrass Lass

No, haven't spoken with you before but let say it's nice to meet you.

There is nothing wrong with a person not feeling comfortable doing any certain act if that act doesn't feel natural to them.But I'm sure you can see how other people can appreciate your thinking on this topic yet feel completely ok with the performance of that act.

I look at it in the same way I view a gathering at a bonfire.It's not really the fire that they are gathering for.Its more of a inspiration to work as a group type thing. And in this case the gathering is to support a wounded city that was attacked during the Boston Marathon. its not the equivalent of a gathering like Guy Fawkes Night, that has political over-tones. To me the whole , "USA USA" chant says, you can kick me when I'm down but I'm going to get right back up!! And I'm thinking how can that be a bad thing.
Guy Fawkes Night?

I know the history, I am sure I am in a minority.
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 6:55 am
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
Are those the exact words of the Americans, or is that the way you enterpreted the meaning behind the sentiments expressed?

I'm not sure how we could interpret the thinking of every American in those crowds shouting "USA USA USA". I imagine it can mean various things to the cross section of people in those crowds. Wouldn't be shocking at all if some of those people in the crowds are brand new Americans. Some could be from various regions of the world and are simply showing support to a country that was attacked on 911 and recently has experienced a very violent attack in Boston. Not a bad time to be supportive.
I do not think we are talking about what meaning is intended. We are talking about the perception. About what is communicated to our ears, intention is irrelevant.
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 7:09 am
  #478  
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
I do not think we are talking about what meaning is intended. We are talking about the perception. About what is communicated to our ears, intention is irrelevant.
Intention can be everything.Go to court for a crime and see the difference in your sentense by the jugde.Your intention to do harm can net you a much longer jail time compared to a person that meant no malice. A perception on the otherhand, can be off base.
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 10:42 am
  #479  
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
BlueGrass Lass

No, haven't spoken with you before but let say it's nice to meet you.

There is nothing wrong with a person not feeling comfortable doing any certain act if that act doesn't feel natural to them.But I'm sure you can see how other people can appreciate your thinking on this topic yet feel completely ok with the performance of that act.

I look at it in the same way I view a gathering at a bonfire.It's not really the fire that they are gathering for.Its more of a inspiration to work as a group type thing. And in this case the gathering is to support a wounded city that was attacked during the Boston Marathon. its not the equivalent of a gathering like Guy Fawkes Night, that has political over-tones. To me the whole , "USA USA" chant says, you can kick me when I'm down but I'm going to get right back up!! And I'm thinking how can that be a bad thing.
They could have chanted "Boston" - much less offensive

As for Guy Fawkes Night having political overtones???
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Old Apr 22nd 2013, 2:01 pm
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Default Re: 2 large explosions at Boston Marathon

As far as I remember, I first heard the "USA" chant when the USA ice hockey team gained a highly improbable win in the Olympic finals over the Russian team.

It is a cultural difference, I don't know about now, but when I was young we believed that patriotism (or any other attribute) is as patriotism does, and that boasting about it probably indicated a lack of patriotism. We were taught to not be pushy, almost "to remember our place". We were not told that we could improve ourselves, social mobility wasn't mentioned, on the other hand, the public school kids were taught that they were to be the rulers of the empire; the class system ruled. Grating as it sometimes is, I like the encouragement to consider upward movement. The paradox is that, in general, the paths no longer exist here, social mobility is lower than the other developed countries. The encouragement to succeed leads to what we see as bragging but is simply part of the culture. I still react to it internally as bragging even though I know it isn't bragging within the culture.
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