Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

Apparently it is where people without drivers' licenses come from.

Originally Posted by dlake02

Not been to California then ? (Or taken a class in English Grammar, but that is purely being a pedant).

What do you mean by "not traditionally associated with the western world ?"

The draconian and overly onerous immigration laws that America has put in place make it almost impossible to come here from the "western world." Also, standards of living outside the US in the west are considerably higher - people in Western Europe don't want to come here any more.

If I look at my own workplace (in Silicon Valley), we are now at 73% Asian, of which a slight majority are on H1 Visas from India. The rest are USC - the proportion coming from anything like the West is tiny and decreasing by the day.

Take the immigrants out of the US, and the country would cease to function.

Of course, if that's what you want to do, then I suggest that you divert some of the huge excess of tax income that currently is wasted on propping up a vastly inflated military, and put it into public education and social services to improve the skills and support for your target "local" population.

But, in the meantime, what would the country survive on ? That would take 20+ years to trickle through.

The vast majority of "murdering lunitics" (sic) are in fact USCs.

For the two years we've been here, EVERY night another murder is reported on our local news. EVERY night.

I know of no-other country in the world save maybe North Korea, where a death toll and failure of society on that scale would be tolerated, let alone excused by glib and meaningless statements such as "we're the greatest - it's the foreigners."

Physician, heal thyself.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

Well put.

Originally Posted by Sally Redux

I seem to remember Rete going on about this as well.

Presumably UKWinds means illegal immigrants who are not permitted to have licences?

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

Mm. Mowing people down. I wonder if the data is kept on road accidents cause by immigrants, illegal immigrants, and US citizens respectively.

Who "indangers" [sic] people the most do you think, in terms of numbers?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux

From a programme I was watching recently, the Amish are pretty bad drivers.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

Bloody foreigners.

Heretics too, aren't they?

Originally Posted by dlake02

The vast majority of "murdering lunitics" (sic) are in fact USCs.

For the two years we've been here, EVERY night another murder is reported on our local news. EVERY night.

Originally Posted by Sally Redux

If I follow the thinking here, it's that 2 people born overseas caused this tragedy. Ergo, stop people coming from overseas and you will stop all future tragedies.

It is an understandable train of thought, but a logical fallacy.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

It's the national level of fear I don't understand. I lived in London when the IRA bombings were happening, and then there were the July bombings a few years ago. There was no suggestion of a "lockdown" in London, shutting down all public transport or closing the airspace.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe

This is for California only, but quite interesting:



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/us...ml?ref=us&_r=0

Originally Posted by Giantaxe

Nor was there the equivalent of the "ra ra USA" reaction we're seeing in some quarters. I can understand the relief and gratitude towards the police etc., but wrapping yourself in the flag seems odd and quite disturbing in some ways.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe

Nor was there the equivalent of the "ra ra USA" reaction we're seeing in some quarters. I can understand the relief and gratitude towards the police etc., but wrapping yourself in the flag seems odd and quite disturbing in some ways.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

Bloody foreigners.

Heretics too, aren't they?

Originally Posted by dlake02

Actually, this is a serious, but off-topic observation, and one that I am struggling with at work.

There seems to be something in the American pschye that stops people from questioning authority or perceived truisms. I'm finding that my biggest workplace challenge - especially as my team is tasked with thinking the unthinkable, questioning our past and future actions. It's called Long Term Strategy, and it appears to be missing in spades.

It was NEVER so much of a drag to extract any number of "I'll tell you what's broken 'ere mate" out of people in the UK or Europe in general. Here, if you even so much dare to say "well, maybe that's just incorrect" or "is there a better way to do ...." I find people clam up, fail to grasp the moment, get all worried about saying the wrong thing, etc. Stunning insecurity.

I thought Americans were legion for criticising, demanding, questioning, etc. Instead, just as with this topic, they seem very quick to tell me how well THEY are doing, and that all the ills are caused by those without their immediate group....

It seems to me that this lack of detached, critical thinking is a major issue in this country.