Michael D. Young

SecretGarden <member4024@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > At no time did she fill out any other
    > form and she said that his number would be assigned within a 24 hour
    > period, the card would come within two weeks, and if we needed access to
    > the number prior to that we could come back to the office, pay a $7.50
    > fee, and receive his number in person as soon as Wednesday.

What office was this and what was the $7.50 specificlly supposed to be
for? It doesn't cost $7.50 for SSA to tell you your SSN before the
card arrives. Plus they is no fee to apply for an SSN and be issued a
card.

Just Jenney

I was wondering the exact same thing. SSN applications and SSN cards are free of charge. I don't know about getting the number before the card is issued, but I don't know why they would charge you for that when the rest of the process is free, anyway.

Also, I think Mr P was VERY lucky to get a clerk who obviously is unaware of the policy and submitted his SSN application despite his already being married. Once a K1 visa recipient is married, the K1 status is gone -- and so is the work authorization that comes with it, which is needed to apply to apply for the SSN in the first place.

~ Jenney

SecretGarden

Hi Michael,
This was the Rockford, Illinois SSA office. On each counter that you walk up to, they have a big notice printed in capital letters that states things like, "we do not make change, you must have exact change" etc. and it goes on to say that for any printouts generated regarding benefits or numbers, there will now be charged a $7.50 fee. This fee is charged for the printout.

I happened to overhear a conversation regarding this when we were in there yesterday. A woman asked the clerk why they were now charging for printouts and the clerk gave this lame response: "Well, they were going to do it a long time ago, and it just went into effect." The customer replied, "well, ok, but why are they charging?" Clerk: "it was supposed to happen awhile ago and now they make us charge." ??????

Anyway, they told us that we could gain access to the number tomorrow if we came down to the office, paid the $7.50 fee, which I assume is to get it printed out before the card actually is issued. Any comments?

~SecretGarden
~and Mr. Pink
(feeling like we've opened a very large and very wiggly can of worms!)

SecretGarden

Hi Jenney,
I guess I should have been more specific in my previous post. The sign on the counter states that the $7.50 charge is to obtain a *printout* of any information regarding SS benefits or numbers, etc. Perhaps if we approached the counter and asked to receive the number verbally we would not be charged the fee. It is my understanding that SSA used to give the numbers out by telephone but no longer are permitted to do that.

While I agree with you that we may have skirted an issue here with the voiding of his K1 status, even Mr. Young indicates that this is a gray issue as far as he is concerned and perhaps open to interpretation. As we all know from personal experience, different offices have different ways of handling the same procedure, right or wrong. States require different documentation for driver's licenses, "local" USCIS offices have different procedures when applying for AOS (just look at the "perceived need" for a medical in Norfolk for proof of this one) and so in the scheme of things, I don't suppose we're suprised when SSA offices handle things differently?

The point is that we have never misrepresented anything to anyone during our entire USCIS or governmental journey here (I know that you weren't suggesting that!) and if I hadn't been involved in this board and this thread I would not have even dreamed that the clerk was in error. I would have gone there yesterday blindly following what I was told, and in this case, it might just have worked to our advantage. I don't see anything wrong with that, and I will, of course, report back the results that follow so that others can learn from our experiences. That is what this is all about, isn't it?

~SG

Just Jenney

First of all, thank you for not taking what I said the wrong way -- because I really wasn't trying to imply that you were trying to "get away with something" or anything to that effect. I appreciate your openmindedness.

Second, I suppose my main point is that while Mr P was able to get his SSN after getting married on a K1, I'd be concerned that newly-arrived K1 recipients may read that and think that they also can apply for their SSN after marriage and not have any problems getting it. But technically, they run the risk of being turned down and told to wait until they get their EAD first as proof of work authorization, which can take months (and in some cases, months and months!).

In any case, I'm glad it worked out for Mr P this way.

~ Jenney

leebarton

If you want to see how long an EAD *can* take, check my timeline =P

SecretGarden

Hi again,
Well, we *hope* that it worked out---all we really have is a letter they gave him when we applied, saying that he applied and "should have the card in two weeks". I suppose there is still a chance that they will not issue him a number, and if that's the case, well, we file the AOS and EAD applications and go from there. In our case, we just didn't have the option of waiting until he appeared in the system weeks down the road, applying for the number and THEN getting married. As I said before, we had to be married in order to get his medical expenses covered for his occupational therapy and orthopedic treatment because of his accident. To be honest, I didn't even think about the marriage voiding out the K1 status until yesterday. Still learning, even at this juncture in the road. But aren't we all.........we have the appt. for the vaccination supplement today, so another hoop to jump through!

~SG

Michael D. Young

SecretGarden <member4024@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by Michael D. Young
    > >
    > >
    > > What office
    > was this and what was the $7.50 specificlly supposed to be
    > > for? It
    > doesn't cost $7.50 for SSA to tell you your SSN before the
    > > card
    > arrives. Plus they is no fee to apply for an SSN and be issued a
    > >
    > card.
    >
    > Hi Michael,
    > This was the Rockford, Illinois SSA office.
    > On each counter that you walk up to, they have a big notice printed in
    > capital letters that states things like, "we do not make change, you
    > must have exact change" etc. and it goes on to say that for any
    > printouts generated regarding benefits or numbers, there will now be
    > charged a $7.50 fee. This fee is charged for the printout.
    >

The answer from the Rockford office is that the Regional Social
Security office said it was OK to charge $7.50 to provide an
individual with an SSN Verification Printout if it is for a
non-program related purpose. Providing it to an employer would be
program related. However, I still feel that charging anyone $7.50 is
not correct.

RM 00202.320 Issuing Numidents and SSN Verification Printouts

B. POLICY

Under the Privacy Act, an individual has the right to a copy of
his/her SSN information, including the Form SS-5 and the Numident
printout.

However, increasingly, individuals are seeking copies of the Numident
as SSN verification even though the SSN card is the only official
verification of an individual's SSN.

Whenever an individual requests a Numident for the purpose of
providing verification of his/her SSN to a third party, the FO will:

· Process a request for a replacement card,
· Provide third party verification via Form SSA-7028,
· Issue the SSN Verification Printout

2. NH Insists on Obtaining Document For Third Party Verification

If the NH insists on obtaining a printout with his/her name and SSN to
take to a third party:

· Obtain proper identification
· Select SSN Verification Printout from the Numident Query Menu by
overkeying "N" to "Y" and route the verification to the printer.

The following section of POMS does allow for the office to charge an
individual for the cost of photocopying a document, but providing an
SSN Printout does not require any documents to be photocopied. The
SSN Verification Printout is system generated.

GN 03360.020 Privacy Act Administration - Copying Records

2. Charging Fees for Personal Records
SSA may charge requesters for photocopy service if personal records
are copies for non-program related purposes.

a. Copies Prepared by SSA Employees on SSA Equipment

The full rate, including the cost of having an SSA employee:
· retrieve the file,
· remove personal data which should not be disclosed, and
· run the photocopy equipment.

In addition, there is a 10 cent per page charge for the copies.

SecretGarden

Hi again, Michael....

Did you actually *call* them? EEEK!

Thanks for the information regarding the policy re:charging for the statement. Seems like a pretty penny to charge for something that is simply system generated, but then again, nothing about this process makes much sense sometimes.

I appreciate your insight---we're considering going back down there tomorrow afternoon to see what happens and attempt to get a printout. And I'll remember to go with exact change!

~SecretGarden
P.S. Would needing the number to complete your AOS application count as "non program related"?

Michael D. Young

SecretGarden wrote:

    > Hi again, Michael....
    > Thanks for the information regarding
    > > the policy re:charging for the statement. Seems like a pretty penny to
    > > charge for something that is simply system generated, but then again,
    > > nothing about this process makes much sense sometimes.

Yes it is since there is no file they are search through to find a document
and no one is physically copying the document. The fair thing would to
charge you 10 cent for the piece of printer paper, but the POMS says $7.50
is minimum to be charged.

    > I appreciate your insight---we're considering going back down there
    > tomorrow afternoon to see what happens and attempt to get a printout. And
    > I'll remember to go with exact change!

http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0203311005

GN 03311.005 Privacy Act and FOIA Fees

B. Requests For Information For Program Purposes - Privacy Act

3. Program Purposes Defined

Definition - Consider a request to be for program purposes if the
information must be disclosed under the Social Security Act. For example,
section 205(c)(2)(A) of the Act (42 U.S.C. 405(c)(2)(A)) requires that SSA
provide certain information upon request to a worker, his or her survivor,
or the legal representative of the worker's estate. The information which
can be disclosed includes the amounts of the worker's wages and
self-employment income and the periods during which they were paid or
derived, as shown by our records.

Also consider a request to be for program purposes if the requester
indicates that the needed information will be used for a purpose which is
directly related to the administration of a program under the Social
Security Act. The major criteria to consider in deciding whether a proposed
use is related are:

1. Is the information needed to pursue some benefit under the Act?

2. Is the information needed to verify the accuracy of information obtained
in connection with a program administered under the Act?

3. Is the information needed in connection with an activity, such as the
resolution of an earnings discrepancy, which has been authorized under the
Act?

4. Is the information needed by an employer to carry out his or her
taxpaying responsibilities under the Federal Insurance Contribution Act or
under section 218 of the Act?

Examples of Purposes Which Meet the Definition

-- To verify the accuracy of an earnings record;

-- To ensure the proper crediting of earnings to a record;

-- To resolve discrepancies in information in Social Security records;

-- To determine eligibility or entitlement under Social Security programs
(e.g., for Social Security benefits, Supplemental
Security Income payments, Medicare, etc.)

-- To determine or estimate the amount of Social Security benefits to which
an individual is entitled, or

-- To request a refund of Social Security taxes paid on wages or
self-employment income.

Your AOS has nothing to do with an SSA program.

http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0203311005

3. POLICY OF FEES

We will not charge for processing a request when the cost of collecting the
fee would exceed the amount of the fee. Do not charge for amounts less than
$7.50 (which represents the minimum processing cost to SSA), unless fees are
to be aggregated under GN 03311.005I.2. Inform the requester that though
there will not be a charge made for this specific request, aggregation of
fees may add the charge for the request to future ones.

The fee schedule in 2. will be used unless the amount of the fee is less
than $7.50 (see above), the fee is waived or reduced (see GN 03311.005G.) or
another fee schedule applies (e.g., proposed schedule for detailed earnings
for non program purposes).

E. Fees For Non-Program Use

2. DEFINITION OF NON-PROGRAM PURPOSE

A non-program purpose is any purpose not meeting the definition of “program
purpose� given in GN 03311.005B.3. Some examples of requests for non-program
purposes are as follows:

To establish earnings amount and/or verify the existence and durations of
employment relationships for private pension purposes;

To provide information needed for use in civil litigation, (e.g., asbestosis
claims, discrimination suits), not related to Social Security programs;

To establish entitlement to union, company, or private pension benefits;

To provide income information for workmen's compensation;

To establish union seniority, or

To provide information for various other purposes which are not specifically
related to the administration of the program or programs under the Social
Security Act.

I. Procedures On Assessing and Collecting Fees

Payment of Fees - Payment of the fee will be made by check or money order
payable to the Social Security Administration.