What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
Sep 23rd 2021, 3:49 pm
#1
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What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
I have an appointment for my H1B application coming up on October 13th.
I have been advised that when I attend the appointment, I still need to carry a letter with the basis for receiving an NIE. They won’t issue a visa if they don’t approve an NIE. (National Interest Exception)
I have also been advised that since my appointment is in October (before the new rules come into play in November) that I will still need the NIE.
My question is: does anyone know what happens if I go to the appointment and they do not approve the NIE?
I have been advised that when I attend the appointment, I still need to carry a letter with the basis for receiving an NIE. They won’t issue a visa if they don’t approve an NIE. (National Interest Exception)
I have also been advised that since my appointment is in October (before the new rules come into play in November) that I will still need the NIE.
My question is: does anyone know what happens if I go to the appointment and they do not approve the NIE?
- Would I simply be able to book another appointment at a later date when the new rules are in play?
- Or would this means my entire application fails? Would it be better trying to reschedule my appointment for a later date after the new rules come into play?
Sep 24th 2021, 3:28 pm
#2
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Location: NYC
Posts: 470
Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
I have an appointment for my H1B application coming up on October 13th.
I have been advised that when I attend the appointment, I still need to carry a letter with the basis for receiving an NIE. They won’t issue a visa if they don’t approve an NIE. (National Interest Exception)
I have also been advised that since my appointment is in October (before the new rules come into play in November) that I will still need the NIE.
My question is: does anyone know what happens if I go to the appointment and they do not approve the NIE?
I have been advised that when I attend the appointment, I still need to carry a letter with the basis for receiving an NIE. They won’t issue a visa if they don’t approve an NIE. (National Interest Exception)
I have also been advised that since my appointment is in October (before the new rules come into play in November) that I will still need the NIE.
My question is: does anyone know what happens if I go to the appointment and they do not approve the NIE?
- Would I simply be able to book another appointment at a later date when the new rules are in play?
- Or would this means my entire application fails? Would it be better trying to reschedule my appointment for a later date after the new rules come into play?
Sep 24th 2021, 5:58 pm
#3
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Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
What makes you say that? Do you have any information on what the consequences might be if it failed?
I asked my lawyer and they said
"There is no downside to proceeding with the appointment in October. If the visa is denied in October (because they won’t issue an NIE), you can book another appointment for after the travel ban is lifted. An NIE-related visa denial won’t prejudice a future visa application."
Which I think is very clear and definite.
However that advice I think contradicts with this advice taken from a random legal website:
https://www.nnuimmigration.com/l-1-h...emption-guide/
This makes me very confused as to what I should do.
I asked my lawyer and they said
"There is no downside to proceeding with the appointment in October. If the visa is denied in October (because they won’t issue an NIE), you can book another appointment for after the travel ban is lifted. An NIE-related visa denial won’t prejudice a future visa application."
Which I think is very clear and definite.
However that advice I think contradicts with this advice taken from a random legal website:
https://www.nnuimmigration.com/l-1-h...emption-guide/
What happens if my NIE is denied?:
If the consular officer finds that you do not qualify for the NIE, they will refuse the visa under Sec. 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. This will remain on the record as a refusal, and will be available to any consular or CBP officer in the future.
Although there is some debate about whether or not a 212(f) denial should have the same legal effect as other types of denials, so far, the U.S. government is treating such denials as if they were temporary ineligibilities. Therefore, one can expect that a 212(f) denial would have the same impact on future travel as would any other visa denial.
What are the implications of this? First, the denial will remain on record permanently. Second, future ESTA applications will automatically be denied by CBP until the applicant applies for a visa, is interviewed by a consular officer, and is granted the visa—even if the planned travel at that point is not for employment in the United States but only for pleasure or business. Third, at the point of this future visa application, regardless of the visa category applied for, the consular officer will need to be satisfied that the 212(f) denial no longer applies and can be overcome. Although CBP policies may change in the future, based on current policy, only after ten years of visa travel without incident may the applicant expect to be granted ESTA again.
If the consular officer finds that you do not qualify for the NIE, they will refuse the visa under Sec. 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. This will remain on the record as a refusal, and will be available to any consular or CBP officer in the future.
Although there is some debate about whether or not a 212(f) denial should have the same legal effect as other types of denials, so far, the U.S. government is treating such denials as if they were temporary ineligibilities. Therefore, one can expect that a 212(f) denial would have the same impact on future travel as would any other visa denial.
What are the implications of this? First, the denial will remain on record permanently. Second, future ESTA applications will automatically be denied by CBP until the applicant applies for a visa, is interviewed by a consular officer, and is granted the visa—even if the planned travel at that point is not for employment in the United States but only for pleasure or business. Third, at the point of this future visa application, regardless of the visa category applied for, the consular officer will need to be satisfied that the 212(f) denial no longer applies and can be overcome. Although CBP policies may change in the future, based on current policy, only after ten years of visa travel without incident may the applicant expect to be granted ESTA again.
Last edited by tariqbutt; Sep 24th 2021 at 6:06 pm.
Sep 24th 2021, 9:09 pm
#4
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Posts: 470
Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
What makes you say that? Do you have any information on what the consequences might be if it failed?
I asked my lawyer and they said
"There is no downside to proceeding with the appointment in October. If the visa is denied in October (because they won’t issue an NIE), you can book another appointment for after the travel ban is lifted. An NIE-related visa denial won’t prejudice a future visa application."
Which I think is very clear and definite.
However that advice I think contradicts with this advice taken from a random legal website:
https://www.nnuimmigration.com/l-1-h...emption-guide/
This makes me very confused as to what I should do.
I asked my lawyer and they said
"There is no downside to proceeding with the appointment in October. If the visa is denied in October (because they won’t issue an NIE), you can book another appointment for after the travel ban is lifted. An NIE-related visa denial won’t prejudice a future visa application."
Which I think is very clear and definite.
However that advice I think contradicts with this advice taken from a random legal website:
https://www.nnuimmigration.com/l-1-h...emption-guide/
This makes me very confused as to what I should do.
Sep 25th 2021, 5:56 am
#5
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,427
Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
What makes you say that? Do you have any information on what the consequences might be if it failed?
I asked my lawyer and they said
"There is no downside to proceeding with the appointment in October. If the visa is denied in October (because they won’t issue an NIE), you can book another appointment for after the travel ban is lifted. An NIE-related visa denial won’t prejudice a future visa application."
Which I think is very clear and definite.
However that advice I think contradicts with this advice taken from a random legal website:
https://www.nnuimmigration.com/l-1-h...emption-guide/
This makes me very confused as to what I should do.
I asked my lawyer and they said
"There is no downside to proceeding with the appointment in October. If the visa is denied in October (because they won’t issue an NIE), you can book another appointment for after the travel ban is lifted. An NIE-related visa denial won’t prejudice a future visa application."
Which I think is very clear and definite.
However that advice I think contradicts with this advice taken from a random legal website:
https://www.nnuimmigration.com/l-1-h...emption-guide/
This makes me very confused as to what I should do.
Consistent advice from two independent sources strikes me as being the opposite of contradiction.
As the King of Siam would note in the play “The King And I”: It is a puzzlement.
Sep 25th 2021, 6:16 am
#6
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
Whereas the advice on the website is that there is a big downside (in that it will "remain on my record permanently and future ESTA applications will automatically be denied ).
In line with the website (and contradicting my lawyer) destone also suggests I change my appointment (my lawyer says keep it)
I was proceeding with appointment based on the idea that there was "no downside" but am I to believe the website that there is a downside, and thus go with destone's advice in this thread and change my appointment?
Last edited by tariqbutt; Sep 25th 2021 at 7:16 am.
Sep 25th 2021, 1:38 pm
#7
DE-UK-NZ-IE-US... the TYP
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,855
Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
I find your post quite puzzling. First you give your lawyer’s advice. But you think that that advice “contradicts” advice in a website which confirms the lawyer’s advice.
Consistent advice from two independent sources strikes me as being the opposite of contradiction.
As the King of Siam would note in the play “The King And I”: It is a puzzlement.
Consistent advice from two independent sources strikes me as being the opposite of contradiction.
As the King of Siam would note in the play “The King And I”: It is a puzzlement.
The point being, if it’s the OP’s employers lawyer the advice given to the OP should be the best advice for the employer and not the the OP, and there could be a difference. They are probably less concerned about future personal travel than they are about getting the employee they need in the US ASAP.
Sep 25th 2021, 4:44 pm
#8
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Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
Lots interesting points here. Given the implications, Im gradually leaning towards pushing my appointment back.
If only it were that easy. The problem now is that if I move the appointment back, the next available appointment is in March. Unless, is there some way I am not aware of of moving the appointment back a shorter amount of time? Later November would be ideal.
If only it were that easy. The problem now is that if I move the appointment back, the next available appointment is in March. Unless, is there some way I am not aware of of moving the appointment back a shorter amount of time? Later November would be ideal.
Sep 25th 2021, 6:59 pm
#9
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Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,427
Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
The OP probably does not have a lawyer, it’s is more likely his employer does. There is a difference. - this is an interesting read: https://www.aila.org/practice/ethics...representation
The point being, if it’s the OP’s employers lawyer the advice given to the OP should be the best advice for the employer and not the the OP, and there could be a difference. They are probably less concerned about future personal travel than they are about getting the employee they need in the US ASAP.
The point being, if it’s the OP’s employers lawyer the advice given to the OP should be the best advice for the employer and not the the OP, and there could be a difference. They are probably less concerned about future personal travel than they are about getting the employee they need in the US ASAP.
That said, let’s say that lawyer is involved in visas for 50 workers for “MegaCorp” and one visa case goes south, what is the attorney to do? Or let’s say the minions of the dark forces insist on a minor amendment to the underlying petition the effect of which is allow 48 applications to go through but does in 2 applications.
The issues of legal ethics can be tricky at times. The citation you give addresses the fact that one of the ethics mavens of the immigration bar took a strong opinion that lawyer had to entirely withdraw from representing MegaCorp and all 50 workers. Mr.Metha disagrees.
So, OP here does have a lawyer.
Sep 25th 2021, 7:53 pm
#10
DE-UK-NZ-IE-US... the TYP
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,855
Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
It should be noted that the link you provide discusses “dual representation.” Dual representation by lawyers is permissible. That said, “potential conflict of interest” is inherent in dual representation. No need to discuss to discuss how weak or strong the potential may be. But legal ethics rules are clear that if potential conflict becomes real the lawyer must withdraw from representation of BOTH clients.
That said, let’s say that lawyer is involved in visas for 50 workers for “MegaCorp” and one visa case goes south, what is the attorney to do? Or let’s say the minions of the dark forces insist on a minor amendment to the underlying petition the effect of which is allow 48 applications to go through but does in 2 applications.
The issues of legal ethics can be tricky at times. The citation you give addresses the fact that one of the ethics mavens of the immigration bar took a strong opinion that lawyer had to entirely withdraw from representing MegaCorp and all 50 workers. Mr.Metha disagrees.
So, OP here does have a lawyer.
That said, let’s say that lawyer is involved in visas for 50 workers for “MegaCorp” and one visa case goes south, what is the attorney to do? Or let’s say the minions of the dark forces insist on a minor amendment to the underlying petition the effect of which is allow 48 applications to go through but does in 2 applications.
The issues of legal ethics can be tricky at times. The citation you give addresses the fact that one of the ethics mavens of the immigration bar took a strong opinion that lawyer had to entirely withdraw from representing MegaCorp and all 50 workers. Mr.Metha disagrees.
So, OP here does have a lawyer.
but in practice I have seen the whole spectrum…
very one sided..
a good balance…
and so unresponsive it would be a stretch to say they were representing anyone…
Sep 25th 2021, 9:28 pm
#11
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,427
Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
Lots interesting points here. Given the implications, Im gradually leaning towards pushing my appointment back.
If only it were that easy. The problem now is that if I move the appointment back, the next available appointment is in March. Unless, is there some way I am not aware of of moving the appointment back a shorter amount of time? Later November would be ideal.
If only it were that easy. The problem now is that if I move the appointment back, the next available appointment is in March. Unless, is there some way I am not aware of of moving the appointment back a shorter amount of time? Later November would be ideal.
Sep 28th 2021, 2:58 pm
#12
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 34
Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
I have an appointment for my H1B application coming up on October 13th.
I have been advised that when I attend the appointment, I still need to carry a letter with the basis for receiving an NIE. They won’t issue a visa if they don’t approve an NIE. (National Interest Exception)
I have also been advised that since my appointment is in October (before the new rules come into play in November) that I will still need the NIE.
My question is: does anyone know what happens if I go to the appointment and they do not approve the NIE?
I have been advised that when I attend the appointment, I still need to carry a letter with the basis for receiving an NIE. They won’t issue a visa if they don’t approve an NIE. (National Interest Exception)
I have also been advised that since my appointment is in October (before the new rules come into play in November) that I will still need the NIE.
My question is: does anyone know what happens if I go to the appointment and they do not approve the NIE?
- Would I simply be able to book another appointment at a later date when the new rules are in play?
- Or would this means my entire application fails? Would it be better trying to reschedule my appointment for a later date after the new rules come into play?
L1 visa appointment from UK and the risk of rejection due to travel restrictions
Sep 28th 2021, 3:15 pm
#13
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
My situation and concern is similar to yours. My lawyers also said the same thing that the L1B visa may be rejected because of the travel ban. I had a post on this website and received some feedback (the feedback made me feel positive, but now I am very confused after reading your thread) - see link to my post below:
L1 visa appointment from UK and the risk of rejection due to travel restrictions
L1 visa appointment from UK and the risk of rejection due to travel restrictions
In the end I have moved my appointment to December so as to be sure the NIE process has been ended (in november), so Im sticking with that and I will hopefully move in January after christmas.
Sep 28th 2021, 3:19 pm
#14
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Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
This post is relevant as it shows the role the NIE letter played and how it was ultimately needed for approval of the visa :
Presidential Proclamation on UK travel and National Interest Exceptions
At the end he said that my visa was denied pending NIE approval (e.g. he couldn't issue the Visa without the NIE)
Sep 28th 2021, 5:09 pm
#15
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Location: Los Angeles, California
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Re: What happens if NIE request fails at embassy appointment.
My situation and concern is similar to yours. My lawyers also said the same thing that the L1B visa may be rejected because of the travel ban. I had a post on this website and received some feedback (the feedback made me feel positive, but now I am very confused after reading your thread) - see link to my post below:
L1 visa appointment from UK and the risk of rejection due to travel restrictions
L1 visa appointment from UK and the risk of rejection due to travel restrictions
OP has clarified his concern: if he should want to make a future visit to the US, he would have to engage in the normal process of applying for a visa and not the legally extraordinary ESTA process. So, no substantive downside to being denied the NIE and concomitant visa.
I submit he was crystal clear after the initial confusion.