ABCABC123

Hello,

I'm from England and I am hoping to hike across American. I estimate this trip will take approximately 5 months.

<snipped>

I have adequate savings.

Yesterday at my Visa interview, I had an awful experience. < link to blog snipped >

The most important bit of information I have is that during the final interview, she said I had applied for an ESTA before and failed. This is far from the truth. In fact, I was under the impression I was automatically allowed 90 days to stay in the USA. I have not applied for a Visa or an ESTA before and yesterday was my first time applying for a Visa.

My life is in England. The American healthcare system seems borderline scary at times; this is not some elaborate scheme to migrate to America. I have it cushy here .

<snipped>

Is it possible someone made a clerical error?
Should I apply for a B2 Visa in February? As stated, I leave in April.
Should I buy the hiking and camping equipment or is there a chance I won't be let in the USA at all?
Should I go ahead and pay for health insurance and book a flight?

On the esta-registration website, there are three questions and statements which stick out to me:

"You are planning to stay for 90 days or less"
I am planning for a 5 to 5.5 month hike. If I apply for an ESTA, I would abide by the rules and I would plan for an 89 day hike if that was my only option; however, I have my heart set on a through-hike. It seems a bit dishonest to apply for an ESTA now when I have the intention of applying for a Visa later, but equally, could an ESTA help my application process?

<snipped>

"Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa you applied for with your current or previous passport"

I was denied a U.S. Visa yesterday. So, am I screwed against having an ESTA as well as a Visa? If that's the case, I might not buy the necessary hiking and camping equipment. I don't want to fork out for health insurance and pay for a flight I won't use. I'd rather put the money towards Broncolor lighting equipment for my camera and camp in some European countries .

I've been so obsessed with researching equipment and the hike itself that I believe I did not put enough research into the Visa application process. I want to blame myself for this but I have this nagging suspicion a clerical error was made.

Rete

If you had never applied for ESTA before and you were told that you had, did you not speak up and say just that? Or did you just sit there and not utter a word?

You are asked on the ESTA form if you have ever had a visa denied and you have.
I applaud you desire to accomplish such a venture but you have gone on to tell us about your physical strengths and your equipment all of which mean nothing in terms of obtaining a visa or more importantly, why your visa was denied.

Until you can tell us the reason she denied your B2, no one can give you any type of satisfactory reply.

Guindalf

You have no choice now other than to apply for a B visa and yes, you MUST declare previous denials.

To answer your second question, no, you should not invest penny number one in anything that is solely related to this trip until you have a visa in hand and that includes health insurance and flights/accommodations.

You can apply for ESTA, but as your plan is to stay for 5-5.5 months, I wouldn't bother. You have a denial so the chances of refusal are much higher.

<snip>

...and yes, you MUST declare the visa denial.

I think you mean you were disappointed as disgusted does not fit here.

Remember, the US government does not care what you want, just what it thinks your objectives may be, no matter what you tell them. The only way to know if you will be successful is to apply.

Again, do NOT buy anything related to this trip until you have a visa in hand.

Good luck.

Noorah101

So far, so good.

<snipped per snips to opening post>


Did you tell her (politely) that you had never applied for ESTA in the past?

<snipped per opening post>

If an ESTA denial is showing on your record, while you have never even applied for ESTA in the past, then perhaps there is a clerical error. I'm not sure how to overcome that, though. The fact that a B-2 is now denied is not a clerical error....the Officer denied it and we know that.

You can certainly try again if you like. All you lose is the application fee.

I personally wouldn't buy anything until you have either an approved ESTA or a B-2 visa in hand...unless you know you'll be using that equipment in the future regardless of travel to the USA.[/quote]

No.

Applying for ESTA now is not dishonest, as long as you know you'll be staying less than 90 days on this trip. Future trips are something different, and not tied to this ESTA application. This ESTA approval will neither help nor hinder future visa applications.

< further snip at OPs request >

So the answer to this one is "yes".

Not necessarily, no.

[quote]If that's the case, I might not buy the necessary hiking and camping equipment. I don't want to fork out for health insurance and pay for a flight I won't use. At this point, I wouldn't pay out any more for a trip to the USA until I have either an approved ESTA or a B-2 visa in hand.

Sounds that way to me, yes. What kind of evidence did you bring to the interview that shows WHY you need a B-2, why you need to stay longer than 90 days? Detailed itinerary of the hike, including timeline? Day by day predicted miles hiked, overnight stops along the way, hotel reservations (if applicable)? Or did you just verbally say you want to go on this long hike?

How so? Do you think she meant to approve it, and clicked "no" by mistake?

<snipped>

So now....what you CAN do...is complete the ESTA application, answering all questions honestly. Perhaps it will come back approved and you can go to the USA for less than 90 days (if that appeals to you at all). Maybe you can do half the hike now and half next year.

If the ESTA comes back denied, then I would wait at least 6 to 12 months and then reapply for the B-2, and bring all kinds of paper evidence of why you need to stay longer than 90 days. Do you need a permit to do this kind of hike, and did you have one to show? Detailed itinerary, as I mentioned. Funds to cover your long stay (as you say you have).

Rene

Pulaski

That is a great question and if that fact is pivotal to the decision to reject the visa application, then a consultation with an experienced immigration attorney might be a useful step. That is incorrect, but it will likely be 6-12 months after a visa refusal before an ESTA would be approved. .... That said, if there is a genuine "issue" with the visa then an ESTA wouldn't be approved either.

It might only be incidental, but I can't help but wonder if the photography angle of the visa application/interview might have been construed as "work" if the photos are to become part of a "professional portfolio". Work of that nature has its own visa and visa requirements. Again, an experienced immigration attorney might have more insight on that question.

Rete

Good thought but no way of knowing the reason for the denial since the OP didn't say.

ABCABC123

I was disgusted actually; the woman was quite disgusting in how she spoke to me-- < snipped >

Yes. The only person being impolite was her. Her manager was more polite I felt but she was unable to help.

As stated in my story, she had said I had applied for an ESTA before and it was denied; I have not applied for an ESTA. How does that happen?

< snipped >

I assumed it would mean something, my bad.

< further bit of snipping >

<snipped >

Good tip about the immigration attorney; hopefully they understand laws regarding non immigration visas too. I'll give that a try, thanks.

I will edit my story at the link provided to show a bit more clarity. As stated, I requested to speak with the manager and whatnot.

Noorah101

I'm a Moderator here, and I removed the link to your blog. You can post the link as part of your signature here on BE if you like. I felt you had told your visa denial story clearly enough here that we didn't need to see your link...it doesn't change the outcome of the visa interview.

OK, so you mentioned that you did NOT have a previous ESTA denial, and even a manager got involved....but they insisted you did indeed have a prior ESTA denial? Even the manager agreed? If you really want to get to the bottom of whether you do or don't have a prior ESTA denial on record (clerical error), then you probably need to involve an immigration attorney to dig deeper than the average person could. At this moment, nothing about your scenario is changed, though...you still have a visa denial now.

What was the exact reason given (if any) as to why your B2 application was denied? Was it lack of ties to the UK (which is what you're stating in the paragraph above)? Or was it the previous ESTA denial (which they mistakenly have on record)?

No offense intended. Part of what they are looking for when denying ESTA based on medical reasons, is that a person might harm themselves or others. That's just standard verbiage....I didn't mean the condition (or you) in particular.


Is photography just a hobby for you? You don't intend to sell the photos, or publish a book of them, or something? It's actually a good thing you couldn't show her the photographs....that could have made her think you intend to take photos on the hike for profit, or as more than a hobby, which could be deemed as "working" in the USA. The photography is not relevant. The length of the hike, which needs more than 90 days, is the ONLY relevant thing.

Rene

Noorah101

ABCABC123

I'm going to mention something here that could help in case you end up with another B-2 visa interview. It may or may not apply, but just giving you information to better your chances. You seem to tend to do a lot of explaining....probably more than necessary. My thinking is that you might also do this verbally, in front of an immigration officer. This is not a good thing, as giving too much information just gives them more to question.

Never give more information than asked for. For example, if asked "do you know what time it is?" The correct answer is either "yes" or "no". That's it. Not "I don't know, I left my watch at home, it's a really nice one I got for my birthday last year" (for example!).

Keep answers very short and to the point. Don't give further information unless specifically asked by the officer. Then give another short, to the point answer. This is not seen as being abrupt or rude to them....this is the way to get just the relevant information across, and not shooting yourself in the foot by mentioning photographs and such when it won't help your case.

I do wish you all the best with getting ESTA or a B-2 resolved...I'm sure a lot of hard work went into preparing for the hike.

Rene

Pulaski

Please stop posting this, it isn't true, and you have been corrected on this point a number of times.

ABCABC123

I don't think there's enough information here because questions are being asked that have already been answered in one way or another. Nonetheless, I'm extremely grateful for the replies--especially the bit about talking to an attorney. I've added a link to my signature.

During the interview, I mentioned I did not have an ESTA denial but perhaps I didn't stress the point enough.

The person I spoke to before I got to the final interview was quite interested (I was asked, "why do you wish to come to the USA?" and I said "to hike the Pacific Crest Trail") and extremely polite. At the end of the final interview, I asked to speak with her manager.

I'd played by their rules, answering the questions concisely and literally. When I spoke to the manager, I did it my way and I said "before we begin, can I please explain?" and she said "yes..." She stated she was unable to help as the process had been completed.

I applied for a b1/b2 non immigration tourism/business Visa. Even if I sold the photographs, I don't know that it would matter with a tourism/business Visa? It's not a professional photography trip. I've been paid for portraiture but I do not consider myself good enough at landscape photography nor have I ever profited from landscape photography.

I was told it was a lack of ties in the UK; this is why I have explained my life is in the UK. I don't have a job and this was brought up. It's not beneficial for me to work but it is beneficial for me to train; I explained this to the manager.

I don't talk that much in real life.

I answered the questions literally, honestly, politely and to the best of my knowledge. As it wasn't good enough, I felt I should explain myself here and my story so you would have a full picture of what I want to achieve and perhaps you or someone else could help me with that.

I did not give more information than requested but I feel that's part of the problem. I answered too literally. She asked me how many miles I had hiked before for example, and I said "20 in a day." She then said, "how long did that take you?" I said "a day." If she said how many miles had I hiked in a week, two weeks, a month or whatever, I'd have answered.

Nonetheless, despite my mistakes, I got a terrible vibe from her (and I am awful at judging when someone dislikes me, so they really have to show a strong dislike for me to notice it), the ESTA denial nonsense doesn't make sense, and I keep coming back to it.

I know I made mistakes and I want to learn from that, but a part of me feels if I had spoken to someone from any other window, I would have been accepted and that doesn't sit right with me.

Noorah101

Hi again ABCABC123

Just wanted you to know I followed the link in your profile and read your blog. I do think there were things you just didn't know about ESTA and the B visa process, so you didn't go to the interview fully prepared.

That's all water under the bridge now, though.

B-1 for business and B-2 for tourism are often given out as combined. B-1 does not cover your photography idea (taking the photos and then selling them for profit), so I would seriously downplay the role photography is playing in this trip. It's all about the hike itself and the adventure of it. The only relevant fact is that you want to do this hike all the way through in one shot and it takes longer than 90 days. Focus on that and prepare paper documentation as was mentioned in that other thread you linked to.

And yes, not having a job in the UK is a huge red flag to immigration officers. Just so you know, their default thinking (the way they are trained) is that everyone is an intending immigrant unless they can prove they are not. It's your job to prove you don't have immigrant intent. A job is considered one of the strongest ties....family (unless it's wife and kids) are the weakest.

Just my thoughts. Keep us posted on what you do next.

Rene

p.s. - in your blog, you wrote that a B visa is always a 10-year, multiple entry visa. That's not always the case. They can also give a B visa which is 1-year, single entry, or anything in between.

ABCABC123

I'll give it some thought and thanks for the advice.

My last few questions... I have an English cousin who migrated to the USA. Would she be a good or bad person to use for contact info? Would they draw the conclusion that because she migrated there, I might try to as well?

Would sponsorship's or charities be worth mentioning?

If I got my doctor to state I had gained weight solely for this trip and had talked about this trip for two years, could that be beneficial?

Last year I took evening classes; my teacher got to know me quite well and would be able to state quite honestly that I had spoken about this trip as early as 2015. In your opinion, should I use her as a reference and if so, what subjects should she bring up?

The woman in the final interview did not ask for any evidence but hopefully that'll change the next time around. I'll definitely let you know how I get on .

Last question, I think... If you were in my shoes, would you apply for an ESTA and then apply for a Visa or go straight to reapplying for a Visa?

I had no idea. I'd prefer to have one of those if they're easier to get.

mikelincs

I very much doubt that any of that will be of any use, the relative isn't really close enough to affect it. The official at the interview will decide how long and how many entries the visa is valid for, it's not for you to ask. you only apply for a B visa.

Your biggest problem I can see is your lack of ties to the UK.

Noorah101

It's probably OK to use her as a contact, if you have to have someone in the USA as a contact. A cousin cannot sponsor a relative to immigrate, so they know you wouldn't try to stay and adjust status to permanent resident based that.

I guess only if they are helping fund your trip, then you can show where the funds are coming from. If they aren't, I don't see any reason to mention them.

In my layman's opinion, not really beneficial. Might be better for your doctor to sort of give you a clean bill of health for travel and completing the hike with no health concerns. He could say something like "patient has been preparing physically for this hike for the past 2 years and is considered in good health to complete such activity".

If you want to get a sworn affidavit from her, she should state how she knows you, and exactly what you said above...why you took her class, when, and what your plan is...in her own words.

Unfortunately for many, that is the case. Many times the officer simply has her mind made up based on the application she sees, and doesn't want to see any other evidence. In many cases, in a second interview, you have more of a chance to show evidence....but no guarantees. Also, just so you know, there is only one interview. That first person you were talking to was not an interview...it was just a guy collecting the paperwork. There's no "initial" or "final" interview...it's just "the interview".

If I would be happy traveling for less than 90 days, I would wait until a month or so before the intended travel date and apply for ESTA. If ESTA came back approved, and I was OK with traveling for less than 90 days, I would go for 85 days (giving leeway time in case something happens and you run late....you do NOT want to overstay the 90-day limit because if you do, you can NEVER use the VWP again).

If I would not be happy traveling for less than 90 days, then I wouldn't do anything for an entire year (don't apply for ESTA and don't apply for a B-2 visa). After 1 year, then I'd apply for a B-2 visa, coming armed at the interview with all relevant paper proof of everything we discussed here.

Rene