Bluegrass Lass

Rita, pardon the ignorance, but I've not heard of the term "healthcare proxy" before. What exactly is meant by that? I would have thought that a living will would be sufficient, in that a will would state who is your legal guardian and has final say in what happens to you?

MarDae

It's interesting to see this posted here since people on this forum are used to government having a hand in their personal lives (when we see our loved ones, etc). I was very thankful that Terri to have the opportunity to pass away. My father has been on feeding tubes different times, he had a stroke that paralyzed the muscles in his throat so he has trouble swallowing and will ofter choke and asperate food into his lungs. He has other limitations due to his stroke but he is able to walk with a walker, go on vacation with my mother and enjoy his grandchildren...oh, and be a complete pain in the butt when he wants too Sometimes feeding tubes are great but unlike being unable to digest food, my father did feel "full" when he'd dump a can of nutrients down his tube. He had regular feeding times like we do. He also had an iv like drip that let a constant drip of food into his stomach so he would not get that full sensation. I would think that Terri is on the drip type but who knows. One thing I've heard is that in a hospice situation like this when someone is allowed to "starve" to death it's not the way with think of it. They are given strong pain killers and will peacefully drift into a sleep from which they never awake. From what I've heard it's very humane...and she wouldn't be suffering if there were even the remotest possibility that she had any sense of awareness. I do not believe this is even an issue since her cerebral cortex...the thinking part of the brain...has been replaced by spinal fluid. It would take more than modern science has to offer for her to recover...who knows maybe future stem cell research would be able to help someone like her but with the current administration we'll never be able to find out. I think that instead of interfering in Terri's life, government should concentrate on saving things like medicare which had enabled Terri and countless other Americans to live each year. Just my thoughts.

MarDae

Rete

http://www.lawdepot.com/contracts/he...C=standard&a=t

A living will outlines what your wishes are

A healthcare proxy or directive not only outlines your wishes but designates one person to see that your wishes are carried out.

If, as in the case of Terri, you can be unconscious and cannot tell them where your living will is then your healthcare proxy has the legal form outlining your wishes and the legal right (except in Louisiana) to see that your directives are adhered to.

It is unfortunate but in some cases a living will can be hidden by a member of your family who does not agree with what you want done. Without the will ... that leaves you on a machine. The HCP will be in the hands of someone you trust to ensure that your wishes are carried out.

MarDae

I live in Pennsylvania and apparently we and one other state do not recognize living wills. There is something else that must be completed to prevent a situation like this. Also due to HIPAA regulations you have to make sure to tell someone besides just your doctor what your wishes are because they will sometimes feel bound by HIPAA not to share your wishes. Just something to think about.

MarDae

Hypertweeky

Wow what a story MarDae!
I am glad to hear your dad is doing a little better! and I am glad to see you "back".


Edited: Miss-wording.

Folinskyinla

Hyper:

This IS a very upsetting case. However, I am glad to see various LONG ESTABLISHED default "surrogate" rules kicking in and being honored by the judiciary. This case has ALREADY been litigated -- everybody, including Terri has had "their day in court."

If you remember, it is just over year since my brother passed away after having been in a one-month long coma after his stroke.

About that video -- if you had told me in 2003 that people in comas or vegatative states moved around a lot -- I would not have believed it. But its is true. And I also understand the DESIRE to assign meaning to each movement or action. Been there, done that.

Any idea how a neurologist seeks a reaction? Well, I was in his ICU room when the neuroligist came in and I asked if I should leave. Dr. Liu asked me to stay. Dr. Liu grasped his two hands into a big fist and then started pounding on my brother's chest and yelling out his name. I was shocked, but I also saw there was no reaction. I then accompineid Dr. Liu out of the ICU to the family waiting room [we were allowed only two people at a time]. Dr. Liu then told the family that he had tested my brother's reactions and there was no response. I then added that the "test" was "beating him up." The Doc smiled wanly and said "you could say that."

In the absence of a written directive, the laws of most states designate the SPOUSE as the first person given guardianship. [In New York, I understand that "probate" courts are called "Surrogate's Court" -- which I think is quite discriptive].

The Schindler's have had their day in court. They have had many days in court. Its time to let it go.

I had lunch with my father today and we discussed this case, my bother's coma and when my mother passed away in 1992. Dad is 83 years old now and the loss of mom and my brother have been devastating to him. But he felt that its not the person in persistent vegatative state who is being hurt -- it is the family members of that person.

My heart goes out to the Schindler and Schiavo families. But there comes a time when you've done all that you can do and you can do no more.

Folinskyinla

Of interest: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/cassel/20050324.html

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Another link:

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/s...1203galrpt.pdf

This is the December 2003 Report of the Guardian Ad Litem to the Court, Governor Bush and with the cooperation [until the end that is] of the Schiavo's and the Schindlers.

Hypertweeky

Thanks for the links and your great post about your brother.

dutchman2001nl

I think it's taken the better turn for Terri. Who in heavens name is Bush, to wanting custody. I don't think any Government should have any say is this kind of issue. It is the spouse that should make the choise. I just wish that there was a euthanasia-law here.
It's hard for Terri and husband as it is.
And for the parents.... give it up, let her rest.

ironporer

Well said.

Megan

This case is certainly heartbreaking for all involved. I am the same age now that Terry was when she slipped into the coma, and I think about what my husband would go through right now if that happened to me. Not only did the husband lose Terry, but with her body still alive, he gave up the better part of his youth as well. I certainly wouldn't want my husband to stop living his life, just because I lost mine. And as for the parents, they have held out hope all of these years that one day she will "wake up", and be her normal self again. Those of us who have seen people wake up from comas know that it just doesn't work that way - her quality of life would never be what it was before. This private situation has turned into a political battle, threatening to take even the right to live or die out of our hands. Hopefully the families can finally accept that they lost Terry years ago, and find peace with that.

SecretGarden

Your post was very well said. Just keep in mind that this woman is NOT in a coma. Coma and persistent vegetative state come with their own set of characteristics and diagnostic criteria.

I do agree with you completely, and I think the husband in this case is being given a very bad rap.

~SecretGarden

Hypertweeky

I finally come to understand that Terri should have the right to rest in peace..

About 6 years ago I was involved in a car wreck with my cousin, she died, I didn't know she was dead until I woke up from my 10 day coma, I know 10 days isn't a long time but the Dr's warned my mom that I could have some serious brain damage.
When I first woke up, I asked where she was, My mom looked at me and I knew my cousin was either dead or seriously hurt, I cried for days (literally), I didn't understand why she died and I survived. I am glad I woke up and I can live my life normally, I am doing a lot better now.. but I miss her tremendously

Folinskyinla

Terri left behind no living will or "advance care directive" [the name in California.

There are sample forms at www.findlaw.com -- the links are on the right.

I went to the California Bar website which gave a link to the California Attorney General website. I used the search term for "advance care directive" and they had a PDF of the California Healthcare Association advance care directive in both English and Spanish.

For California, the form is not the complicated and needs to be signed in front of two witnesses OR a notary. It is a good checklist IMHO.

DISCLAIMER: I'm a lawyer but I am not convesant in probate law and no specific advice is intended.