Gbob

Hi everyone,

For reasons concerning my mother's Right of Abode application, we need my father's British passport issued before 1st January 1983 to prove that she (of Singaporean citizenship) was married to him (of British citizenship) before this date. However, he cannot find this passport issued 30 years ago, except only the ones issued after this passport, which are of no use. We already sent the marriage certificate but that doesn't seem to prove that my father was a British citizen before 1983. He also cannot find his certificate of registration either.

We have less than 21 days to send in this documentation. My mother has previously renewed her Right of Abode before but, for some reason, the rules are more stringent this time. What would you suggest we do? Could we contact the Passport Office to get a passport replacement for a very old passport? Or, would the Passport Office still have my father's passport records from before 1983 that they could just send directly to the UKBA?


(Sorry this was tagged as 'urgent': it's just that if we don't show proof of documentation within 21 days, the UKBA will just take our 170-pound application money due to 'admin costs')


Many thanks,

Gbob.

BritInParis

No chance that an application form from that date would still be around. You say your father's certificate of registration is also missing. In what circumstances did he become British? Where was he born, his parentage, etc..

Gbob

So there's absolutely no chance of obtaining a duplicate of his old passport? I find it ridiculous that they want him to find his passport that was issued more than 30 years ago for my mother's Right of Abode application. This isn't her first time applying for the Right of Abode; it's a renewal ... she even has the previous Right of Abode certificate in her other passport, so surely in the past they have done all this before.

But to answer your question: my father was originally born in Hong Kong (so Chinese) and he came to the UK before 1983 with a relative. He applied during this time to be a UK citizenship when Hong Kong was still a British colony.

pennylessinindia

the onus is on the applicant to show that they meet the requirement so the passport office would not be able to send information directly to UKBA. If you can not get the documentation quickly and are refused you should be granted a right of appeal and that would give you more time to find documentation to support the appeal.

Have you tried ringing the passport office 0300 222 0000 or doing an online enquiry. they may be able to send a document confirming that he has held a passport since whatever date. You could then explain this and a covering letter explaining the loss of the passport and suggesting that UKBA can check the information shown in any letter.

BritInParis

Simply put, no. Your father's Certificate of Registration however is a far more valuable and useful document as this alone will confirm your father's British citizenship. I'm surprised that they are even asking for an old blue passport as evidence. As mentioned by pennylessindia you could try contacting HM Passport Office and asking them whether your father's registration details are listed on his record.

The UK Border Agency does not retain records of grants of citizenship prior to October 1986. Did your father register in Hong Kong or after he came to Britain? If he did so in HK, there may be a chance that the Consulate General would still hold records for his registration. If it was done in the UK, try going through the National Archives as they may have a record.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...tform.asp?id=7

The easiest thing of course would be to try and find the original or the missing passport. Beyond this, I can't think of anything more to suggest.

JAJ

If he was born in Hong Kong then he was a UK & Colonies citizen by birth so could not have applied for UK citizenship. He already had it. I expect that he got a Right of Abode based on settlement plus 5 years residence prior to 1983.

There would only be a British citizenship application in place if he became a British citizen in 1983 or later.

However, proving all of this may be difficult if old records are lost or destroyed. Does he have any proof of his settled status prior to 1983.

Lesson of the tale - expired passports are valuable documents and care should be taken not to lose them. And not to throw them away.

Gbob

Just an update on the situation. Basically I tried everyone's suggestions and no-one could find records of my father's passport details.

However, I wrote them a letter explaining the situation and mentioned that my mother had previously (and successfully) renewed her Right of Abode before without my father's original British Passport (so why could she not do it again?). I also said that the fact that she *has* a Right of Abode has proven that, at some other time in the past, the whole procedure of checking my father's passport details had been successfully performed. And they eventually folded. My mother's Right of Abode has been renewed!

N. B. I would just like to address the issue of keeping our old documents safe. Obviously that seems to be very important in situations like these, however, surely the fact that a passport eventually expires, in theory, renders it completely useless for future use? I find it bizarre that we still have to keep something that's expired because it still has some intrinsic use. For example, would you keep meat that's been expired? It'd have been more helpful if someone told us to keep our old passports (not that we don't, we have every other passport in hand except that one)

Furthermore, even if some of us do want to keep old important documents safe, sometimes it is not quite possible to do so, in extreme cases such as house fires etc, so I find it frustrating that there were no other records stored elsewhere of my father's passport details.

Nonetheless, I am happy with the outcome and may have been lucky in this instance.

BritInParis

Glad to hear your problem was resolved.

Regarding old documents, it wasn't just the old passport that went missing, but crucially your father's certificate of registration as well.

Given the length of time that your parents have been in the UK, has your mother ever thought about naturalising? She may lose her Singaporean citizenship (although if you never tell the Singaporean authorities and only visit Singapore on a Singaporean passport, there's no way they'll find out) but it would avoid a situation like this again.

Gbob

I've suggested that she should just apply for a British passport but she was unwilling to do so because she wanted to uphold her national roots. She is rather stubborn.

Several years ago she successfully applied for a British passport but then converted back to a Singaporean passport within two months, which was sort of silly ...

If she naturalised, then would she have two passports

BritInParis

You say already she successfully applied for a British passport? That would make her British already!

But yes, she could hold both passports. Just don't let on to the Singaporean government.

Gbob

Yeah she *did* have a British passport but then she converted back to Singaporean and I think they took the British passport away. So she only has a Singaporean passport now.

BritInParis

Converted back? Who took it away?

Gbob

I'm not sure who took it away...the UKBA? To be honest, I'm not entirely sure of all the details but just the overall gist of the story. I'd have to ask my mother when I go back to the UK.

This is one of the 'coulda woulda shouldas' when we were dealing with my mother's Right of Abode application - if she had stayed with the British passport she wouldn't have this problem.

BritInParis

Yeah, that seems unlikely, I don't think your mother has given you the full story there! Citizenship is distinct from having a passport, so you can't 'convert' one into another.

Maybe she applied to naturalise and then changed her mind and withdrew her application. Gently try and persuade next time you see her. It'll make life easier all round.

Gbob

I definitely remember seeing her with a British passport for around two months and then it changed back to a Singaporean passport thereafter. Hmm, I'll be sure to ask her when I get back to the UK - I'm intrigued about this now.

Maybe she meant she applied for permanent residency? I don't know. My parents' English isn't too good so sometimes they'll just call two different things the same thing.